An Undivided Heart

Among the gods, there is none like you, Lord; no deeds can compare with yours. 9 All the nations you have made will come and worship before you, Lord; they will bring glory to your name. 10 For you are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God. 11 Teach me your way, LORD, that I may rely on your faithfulness; give me an undivided heart, that I may fear your name. 12 I will praise you, Lord my God, with all my heart; I will glorify your name forever. 13 For great is your love toward me; you have delivered me from the depths, from the realm of the dead. Psalm 86:8–13

David asks for an “undivided heart” (verse 11). A divided heart can have many forms. There is the insincere heart, in which what is said out loud is not matched by the inner attitude (Psalm 12:1). There is the irresolute heart, which cannot fully commit itself (James 1:6–8). Even hearts regenerated by the Spirit and loving God retain much of their older willful resentment of his authority (Romans 7:15–25). David’s goal is not psychological healing for its own sake, but to “fear” God—to give him joyful, awe-filled love with his entire being. The way to this new heart is not introspection but deliberate worship (verse 12). “I will praise you,” he says.

Jesus the Messiah

In Luke 18:31 we read: Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.

This is high Christology - the claim that Jesus makes regarding himself being the fulfillment of the ancient Jewish Messianic promises. There are things that are going to unfold and happen in Jerusalem when Jesus gets there. It’s like Jesus us saying to his disciples, “You’ve heard of these things before. You’ve longed for these things to happen. Now’s the time.”

1. In Genesis, God gave specific promises to the tribe of Judah regarding the covenant God made between himself and Israel. For example, Genesis 49:10 says “The scepter will not depart from Judah.” There was a man named Jesse who was of the tribe of Judah. Jesse had a son named David.

2. Isaiah 11:1 says “A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.” The word “Branch” is commonly used to refer to the Messiah. The idea is that from Jesse, who is from the tribe of Judah, there’s going to come a “Messiah” who will bear fruit. There’s going to be a lasting kingship through David.

3. In Jeremiah 23:5 God said that he will raise from David’s line “a righteous Branch, a king who will reign wisely.”

4. In the book of Isaiah we see references to someone called “the servant of the Lord.” Which means, “Messiah.” “Anointed One.” The Greek words for “the Messiah” are “the Christ.”

5. Isaiah 42:1-4 say that the Messiah will not stop [i.e. falter] until he brings justice to the earth.

6. Isaiah 49 says that the “servant of the Lord” has the mission of re-gathering the tribes of Israel to bring them back to God.

7. In Isaiah 49:6 God says he will not only re-gather Israel. “I will make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth.”

8. Isaiah 50:6 speaks of the Messiah’s voluntary suffering: I gave my back to those who strike me, and my cheeks to those who pull out the beard; I did not hide my face from disgrace and spitting

9. In Isaiah 52:13 – 53:12 we read that the Messiah will be highly exalted but first will suffer terribly. He will actually be disfigured in his suffering. The words here say the people of Israel didn’t get it. They thought he was suffering for his own sins and wickedness. They didn’t realize he was bearing their sins, suffering for them, and by his wounds there was healing for them. Then these verses speak of his death and his continued life after that.

13 Behold, my servant shall deal wisely, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. 14 Like as many were astonished at thee (his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men), 15 so shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they understand.

53 Who hath believed our message? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed? 2 For he grew up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He was despised, and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and as one from whom men hide their face he was despised; and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due? 9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul [r]an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

This makes it absolutely clear Jesus is the Messiah; it’s undeniable.

10. Narrowing it down; in 2 Chronicles 7;19 God says if Israel’s sin reaches a certain level he will destroy the temple [Solomon’s], exile the people, and leave them in a state of judgment.

19 “But if you turn away and forsake the decrees and commands I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 20 then I will uproot Israel from my land, which I have given them, and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. I will make it a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples. 21 This temple will become a heap of rubble. All who pass by will be appalled and say, ‘Why has the Lord done such a thing to this land and to this temple?’ 22 People will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who brought them out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—that is why he brought all this disaster on them.’”

God says to the people of Israel – “Forsake me… and I will destroy the temple in Jerusalem. - All of this happened in history.

11. The prophet Daniel prays in Daniel 9 that God would have mercy.

• God gives Daniel a revelation about the temple being rebuilt.
• Before this new temple is destroyed, Daniel is told that several things are going to happen.
• This includes the bringing of everlasting atonement – the final dealing with sin.

12. The Second Temple is built.

• The prophet Haggai lives to see this second temple built.
• But it’s nothing like the first temple, Solomon’s temple. Solomon’s temple was a stunning physical structure, far more imposing than the second temple. It also had the glory of God there. When sacrifices were offered, fire came down and consumed them.
• The second temple didn’t have the presence of God or the divine fire.

13. BUT… Haggai said the glory of the second temple would be greater than the glory of the first temple:

"For thus says the Lord of hosts: 'Yet once more, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land. And I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with glory, says the Lord of hosts. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the Lord of hosts. The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the Lord of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the Lord of hosts

God would fill the second temple with his glory. But when God says he’ll fill the temple with glory, He’s talking about filling the temple with His presence.

14. Then the prophet Malachi, says God Himself… will come to his temple and purify some of his people and bring judgment on others. Malachi uses a Hebrew term that always refers to God himself – the Lord – he will come to this Second Temple.

15. The second temple was destroyed in AD 70. The prophesied visitation of God had to take place before the second temple was destroyed. So guess what’s happening, e.g., a passage like John 7.  "37 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 40 When they heard these words, some of the people said, “This really is the Prophet.” 41 Others said, “This is the Christ.”

16. The prophecy of Haggai is fulfilled when Jesus enters the temple courts and says things like “I am the light of the world,” and “If you are thirsty, come to me.”

Justified True Belief

The Justified True Belief [JTB] account of knowledge is the claim that knowledge can be conceptually analyzed as justified true belief, which is to say that the meaning of sentences such as "Smith knows that it rained today" can be given with the following set of conditions, which are necessary and sufficient for knowledge to obtain:

1) A subject S knows that a proposition P is true if and only if: P is true, and
2) S believes that P is true, and
3) S is justified in believing that P is true

Necessity and sufficiency - A necessary condition is a condition that must be present for an event to occur. A sufficient condition is a condition or set of conditions that will produce the event.

A belief is any claim that you accept. A true belief is any claim you accept that corresponds to how things are in the world, and a justified true belief is a true belief that has proper evidence.

The Three Laws of Logic

As good critical thinker should be well acquainted with the three founding principles of informal logic, the form of logic generally used in debates and arguments.

Understanding of basic logic is important to effectively be able to get across your reasons for being holding the views you have, as well as being able to identify flaws and fallacies in your interlocutor's arguments. So, a good idea to quickly go over the three “laws” of informal logic, how they work and why they are important.

It is one of the pivotal assumptions of western civilization is that there are certain fundamental principles which govern human thinking. They are considered as fundamental in the sense that without these laws, reasoning cannot take place. 

In western tradition, the concept of laws of thought can be traced back to Aristotle (384-322 BCE), the eminent Greek thinker, who is considered to be the pioneer of western logic. Before him, the geometricians and the arithmeticians used proofs in their respective domains. Aristotle was the first to extend the study of formal proof in the domains beyond the realms of geometrical and mathematical thinking. He was also the first to investigate the patterns embedded in human reasoning and the way in which reasoning is processed. 

As part of his project, Aristotle was trying to describe the basic laws by which human thought (and reasoning) can occur.  laws so fundamental that obedience to them is both necessary and sufficient condition for correct thinking. These three laws have traditionally been called:

1) The Law of Identity: “A is A” or “Anything is itself”. If a statement is true, then it is true. It asserts that every statement of the form pp is true, that is it is a tautology. 

2) The Law of Excluded Middle: Anything is either A or not A. Any statement is either true or false – asserts that every statement of the form p V p is true, it is a tautology. 

3) The Law of Contradiction: Nothing can both be A and not A. No statement can be both true and false – asserts that every statements of the form pp is false. 

These are now explained below: 

Law of Identity 

By law of identity, we mean that everything is the same with itself and different from another, e.g., B is B and not B. It says that if any statement is true, then it is regarded only as true. It also means that every statement of the form pp must be true, so the statement is a tautology. Aristotle also talks about the laws of identity. 

It has been also said that each thing like of universal or a particular is composed of its own unique set of features. Things, which have the same essence refers to the same thing, whereas things that have different essence refers to the different thing. Those who violate the law of identity are engaged in the informal logical fallacy, we mean equivocation. 

Law of Non-Contradiction 

This law of non-contradiction comes under the domain of logic. It says that “one cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time”. This definition is given by Aristotle. 

It also says that no statement can be both true and false. So, it has been said that every statement of the form p⋅~p must be false, then that statement is regarded as self-contradictory. It has been said that the law of non-contradiction or the principle of non-contradiction means the same thing. It also states that contradictory statements cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time. By the law of non-contradiction, we mean an expression of mutually exclusivity.

Law of Excluded Middle

The law of excluded middle comes under the domain of logic. It also means the principle of excluded middle. 

• It says that either the proposition should be regarded as true or its negation should be regarded as true. 
• It is also known as the law or principle of the excluded third. 
• It says that a statement is either true or false. 
• It has been said that there is no middle ground between being true and being false. 

This law excludes a middle ground between truth and falsity. It has been also state that every statement of form pv~p must be true, then that every such statement is regarded as tautology. 

Pushbacks:

The law of identity has been attacked on the ground that things change, and are always changing. Thus, for example, statements that were true of the United States when it consisted of the 13 original states are no longer true of the United States today with 50 states. But this does not undermine the principle of identity. The law of identity is true, and it does not interfere with our recognition of continuing change. 

The law of non-contradiction has been attacked by on the ground that the world is replete with the inevitable conflict of contradictory forces. The reply is that there are conflicting forces in the real world is true, of course – but to call these conflicting forces “contradictory” is an ambiguous use of that term. Labor unions and private owners of industrial plants may indeed find themselves in conflict – but neither the owner nor the union is the “negation” or the “contradictory” of the other. The principle of contradiction understood in the straightforward sense in which it is intended by logicians is unobjectionable and perfectly true

The saw of excluded middle has been objected to on the ground that it leads to a “two valued orientation” that is, everything in the world must be either “white” or “black”. This objection also arises from the misunderstanding. Of course, the statement “This is black” cannot be jointly true with “This is white” – where “this” refers to exactly the same thing. But although these two statements cannot both be true, they can both be false “This” may be neither black nor white; the two statements are contraries, not contradictory. The contradictory of the statement “This is White” is the statement “it is not the case that this is white” and one of them must be true and the other false. The principle of excluded middle is inescapable.

The Consensus of the Experts Say.....

Do a Google search for the term “global warming consensus” and you’ll find one of the first link for “global warming consensus” is to this NASA webpage with the title “Scientific Consensus” and the following statement:

Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.

Note: this isn't a discussion about global warming, but the misuse of the "Consensus of the Experts" in discussions.

Here’s what Michael Crichton had to say about “scientific consensus” back in 2003 when he gave a lecture at the California Institute of Technology titled “Aliens Cause Global Warming”:

I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.

Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. 

In addition, let me remind you that the track record of the "consensus" is nothing to be proud of. Let’s review a few cases. In past centuries, the greatest killer of women was fever following childbirth. One woman in six died of this fever. In 1795, Alexander Gordon of Aberdeen suggested that the fevers were infectious processes, and he was able to cure them. The consensus said no.

In 1843, Oliver Wendell Holmes claimed puerperal fever was contagious, and presented compelling evidence. The consensus said no.

In 1849, Semmelweiss demonstrated that sanitary techniques virtually eliminated puerperal fever in hospitals under his management. The consensus said he was a Jew, ignored him, and dismissed him from his post. There was in fact no agreement on puerperal fever until the start of the twentieth century. Thus, the consensus took one hundred and twenty-five years to arrive at the right conclusion despite the efforts of the prominent “skeptics” around the world, skeptics who were demeaned and ignored. And despite the constant, ongoing deaths of women.

There is no shortage of other examples. In the 1920s in America, tens of thousands of people, mostly poor, were dying of a disease called pellagra. The consensus of scientists said it was infectious, and what was necessary was to find the “pellagra germ.” The US government asked a brilliant young investigator, Dr. Joseph Goldberger, to find the cause. Goldberger concluded that diet was the crucial factor. The consensus remained wedded to the germ theory.

Goldberger demonstrated that he could induce the disease through diet. He demonstrated that the disease was not infectious by injecting the blood of a pellagra patient into himself, and his assistant. They and other volunteers swabbed their noses with swabs from pellagra patients, and swallowed capsules containing scabs from pellagra rashes in what were called “Goldberger’s filth parties.” Nobody contracted pellagra.

The consensus continued to disagree with him. There was, in addition, a social factor-southern States disliked the idea of poor diet as the cause, because it meant that social reform was required. They continued to deny it until the 1920s. Result-despite a twentieth century epidemic, the consensus took years to see the light.

Probably every schoolchild notices that South America and Africa seem to fit together rather snugly, and Alfred Wegener proposed, in 1912, that the continents had in fact drifted apart. The consensus sneered at continental drift for fifty years. The theory was most vigorously denied by the great names of geology-until 1961, when it began to seem as if the sea floors were spreading. The result: it took the consensus fifty years to acknowledge what any schoolchild sees.

And shall we go on? The examples can be multiplied endlessly. Jenner and smallpox, Pasteur and germ theory. Saccharine, margarine, repressed memory, fiber and colon cancer, hormone replacement therapy. The list of consensus errors goes on and on.

Finally, I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.

Related: 

The notion of a monolithic “science,” meaning what scientists say, is pernicious and the notion of “scientific consensus” actively so. The route to knowledge is transparency in disagreement and openness in debate. The route to truth is the pluralist expression of conflicting views in which, often not as quickly as we might like, good ideas drive out bad. There is no room in this process for any notion of “scientific consensus.” From John Kay’s 2007 op-ed “Science is the pursuit of the truth, not consensus“:

Objection A: You are advocating for science denial,

Reply: No, I am advocating for critical thinking. Simply saying "the consensus of the experts say x" isn't critical thinking - Don't blindly follow anything. Educate yourself, argue the data, follow the argument wherever it leads. 

Objection B: What are the experts basing their opinions on?

Reply: That's the question. If you have read and understood what they were saying, one should never rely on the Consensus of the Experts Fallacy. 

Objection C: I would rather go with the majority of experts than go with the minority.

Reply: That is an intellectually dead way of "thinking".

Objection D: As a layman, consensus is proxy evidence due to the fact I am not capable of evaluating the evidence myself.

Reply: Then you probably should be engaged in discussions, just say that you are not intellectually capable of evaluating the evidence. 

Objection E - Let's argue the data, then instead of seeking to use "scientific consensus on climate change" as justification alone to be skeptical of anthropogenic climate change. Here is my first argument with supporting data: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/

Reply: You missed the point of the post, as I noted this isn't a discussion about global warming, but the misuse of the "Consensus of the Experts" in discussions.  But for an alternate view of the climate crisis, you can click here

Objection F - Your last line seems to indicate that you don’t think experts came to a consensus from arguing the data and following the evidence where it led, and I would love to know why you think that.

Reply: The last line is: Argue the data, follow the argument wherever it leads. I'm saying check the experts. Don't them at their word. 

Objection G - Could they be wrong? Sure, it’s happened before, but here’s the thing. Every single time it’s been shown to be wrong, it’s been done with new data.

Reply: Or with a better explanation of the current data. But here’s the thing, simply citing the expert consensus isn't data driven. If you've read and understood why the experts says X, then you should make that argument instead of citing their consensus.

Objection H - Then we can dismiss anything that more than three religious scholars agree on? Good to know.

Reply: I didn't say anything about dismissing scholars; I said get down into the data and their arguments.....

Objection I - Consensus of the experts isn’t the evidence. The evidence is why the experts agree, generally. Experts don’t say "it’s true because we agree"—they say it’s true because of XYZ.

Reply: But that not how some play it. They find a consensus and cite it sans any sort of examination. They can't or won't evaluate the data, they can't or won't think critically, they can't or won't come to a conclusion other than what the experts have said. 

Objection J -  If you didn't want people to make the connection that you were a climate change denier, you shouldn't have referenced it 

Reply: Yes, I considered changing that, but I thought that post was clearly about the misuse of scholarly consensus, it wouldn't be a problem. Then I thought it would be fun to see how many thought I was denying science or climate change. Turns out, it's a lot!

Objection K - This all screams as an excuse to dismiss this consensus rather than put the work in ot actually takes to challenge the consensus in the academic community.

Reply: Except I said the exact opposite: Don't blindly follow anything. Educate yourself, argue the data, follow the argument wherever it leads. 

Objection L - Consensus kind of is evidence as far as you the layman is concerned, lest you throw expert knowledge in the bin and give in to the Dunning Kruger effect.  Now of course it isn't "proof" and is in no way a winning argument, but it can certainly be used in conjunction with the supporting evidence that lead to the consensus in the first place.

Reply: First, if I have the data, evidence, and argument, and critically examine them, why would I need a scholarly consensus? 

Secondly, to simply accuse someone you disagree with as experiencing the Dunning Kruger effect isn't the same sas showing that thier understandingg of an issue is incorrect. It's basically an ad hominem attack. 

A Rebuttal to "A Rebuttal to Seven Arguments Which Show That Universalism is a False Doctrine"

This is a response to this rebuttal  of my original Seven Arguments Which Show That Universalism is a False Doctrine that I posted on Reddit


The Aionios Argument

Objection A: Since this judgment of "eternal" fire is said to serve as a warning, it cannot be a reference to a postmortem judgment of the Sodomites. Such judgment could not be observed as a lesson for the living; furthermore, the Sodomites would not presently be experiencing their final punishment, which awaits the day of judgment and the lake of fire. The "consuming fire" is God himself (Heb. 12:29)

Reply: First problem is that Hebrews 12:29 uses the word "katanaliskó" not aionios; the former means "to use up", the latter means "agelong, eternal" - this seems to be equivocating on what is in the text.

Secondly if we use the this defintion of Aionios that is proposed then we will have a problem with the following veres:

Matthew 18:8, “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.”
Matthew 25:41, “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”

Are we to think that Matthew when says that people are being cast "into the eternal fire", he means that they are cast into God!?!?!

So on those 2 points we can reject this proposed rebuttal.

Objection B: When aionios modifies words like "life," "glory?" "righteous-ness," "salvation," "wrath," and "punishment," could it not be that the writers are simply speaking of these things as coming from God, and being manifestations of His character or attri-butes, which are eternal?

Reply: "could it not be" is not a a convincing argument. To be convincing it should be the best explanation. No reason is given why that is the best explantion, and given the problem with being cast "into the eternal fire" - i.e. God; one can reject this until, at least a cogent argument is presented.

Objection C: Since this judgment of "eternal" fire is said to serve as a warning, it cannot be a reference to a postmortem judgment of the Sodomites. Such judgment could not be observed as a lesson for the living;...

Reply: One can, as countless other Christians have in the past, read this warning and heed it. So, this definately can be a lesson for the living!

Objection D: ....furthermore, the Sodomites would not presently be experiencing their final punishment, which awaits the day of judgment and the lake of fire.

Reply: So what? How does the fact that the day of judgment has not yet been imposed mean that everyone is saved?

Argument 2 - the Two Ways argument

Objection E: The problem with these texts is the attempt to make them a reference to eternal fates in the afterlife. In fact, the condition of those in the afterlife isn’t mentioned explicitly anywhere in the entire OT. The fate of the wicked after death is nowhere mentioned in the entirety of the OT.

Reply: We have the New Testament to refer. See Annihilationism and Revelation 20

Four facts we can glean from Revelation 20

1) The devil was thrown into the lake of fire along with the beast and the false prophet, [vs 10]

2) where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever [vs 10]

3) The lake of fire is the second death. [vs 14]

4) Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was also thrown into the lake of fire. [vs 15]  [See the link above for the full argument.]

Objection F: I would like to add, that there’s an assumption that if God brings a judgement, that the purpose of that judgement is apparently anything other than disciplinary, and isn’t for the purpose of purification. I would like to argue that this assumption is wrong in a future post.

Reply: I have assumed nothing; if that is where the text leads, then I follow.

Argument 3 - the no righteous judgment argument

Objection G: this is an outright straw man. I don’t know of any evangelical universalists that believe God doesn’t exercise judgment upon sinners. The only difference is the universalist believes that God’s judgement upon sinners is for the purpose of reconciliation, and ultimate restoration.

Reply: Perhaps I should rephrase the title of the argument, but it seems you reacted to the title, not the actual argument: Revelation offers a picture of God’s righteous judgment against a sinful world, in overt rebellion against himself, as the bowls of his wrath are poured out in Revelation 16. The Beast, the False Prophet, and the Devil are later seized by the Lord and unrepentant sinners are thrown into “the lake of fire” - which is the second death.

Argument 4 - wise and foolish virgins argument

Objection H: this argument rests upon a futurist interpretation of the Gospel accounts. I am a preterist concerning Matthew 24-25 (most of 25).

Reply: Above. you went on about what you thought I assumed. Yet here you assume preterism, and that is the lens upon which you interpret the Bible. If one is going to offer an objection based on preterism they should at least be able to articulate why it is the correct view.  

Argument 5 - the defeat of God’s last remaining enemy

Objection I: Our debate is ultimately what the apostles believe, as revealed in their letters. This means that any text that’s presented to prove something must be scrutinized in its context. 1 Corinthians 15 is an excellent example of what happens when our theology isn’t derived from a proper understanding of the Bible. 

“But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.” ‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭20‬-‭22‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

This is immediately before the passages quoted in the OP. Directly in the same context. Now, unless there’s a valid reason to conclude that the all in Adam isn’t the same all in Christ, then presumably all will be resurrected to life. 

Reply:  The first part of 1 Cor 15:22 is clear. All the descendants of Adam die physically. The phrase in Adam all die means that all who are in Adam die physically. We are all in Adam. The second part of the verse depends on the meanings of the expressions "in Christ" and shall be made alive.

Does in Christ here refer exclusively to believers, as it typically does throughout Paul’s writings when he is referring to those who are in Christ (e.g., 1 Cor 3:1; 15:18; 2 Cor 5:17; 12:2; Gal 5:6; 6:15; Eph 2:13; Phil 1:1)? 

Four reasons that Paul was not teaching universalism in this verse

First of all, notice that “shall be made alive” is future. Believers already have everlasting life (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:47). Believers already have eschatological salvation (John 3:17-18; 5:24; 6:35; 11:26; Eph 2:8-9; 1 Thess 5:10).

Second, the context of 1 Corinthians is about believers exclusively, not about believers and unbelievers. See this article entitled “The Strongest Argument for Universalism in 1 Corinthians 15:20–28,” by Andrew Wilson 

And we can note who this epistle was addressed to: the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus - i.e believers

Third, the promise of everlasting life to the believer is an exclusive promise. Only those who believe have that life (John 3:14-18, 36; 5:39-40).

Fourth, the Scriptures are clear that there is no such thing as people dying in unbelief, then later gaining everlasting life (John 8:24; Heb 9:27; Rev 20:15).

Objection J:  The resurrection of the lost means that all of creation has been reclaimed by Christ. For some inexplicable reason, OP has concluded that those in the lake of fire are enemies of God. Why? Christ has already reclaimed them, they belong to Him, even as they’re going through the process of purification before entering into the new Jerusalem. That’s the hinge OP’s entire argument hangs upon, but there’s really no reason to conclude that those Christ has resurrected are His enemies anymore.

Reply: Again see Annihilationism and Revelation 20; we have good reason to conclude that  those in the lake of fire are enemies of God. 

Argument 6 - God delaying the day of judgment argument

Objection K:  the assumption that OP is making is that every single reference to future judgement from the different authors’ perspectives is the same event. It could be, it could not be, but that’s the point of contention.

Reply: This is a strawman fallacy. No where did I say that "every single reference to future judgement from the different authors’ perspectives is the same event.". 

Objection L: Is Peter speaking of an impending national judgement at the hands of the Romans, or a still future eschatological judgement dealing with the afterlife?....Presuming OP affirms eternal Conscious Torment, this presents a problem. It would strongly suggest that, if a future judgement, then Annihilationism would be the exegetically appropriate interpretation. Given OP’s final link, I assume he doesn’t affirm Annihilationism. This is a problem for him if he wants a futurist interpretation of 1 Peter, as well as maintain ECT.

Reply: This is too vague to comment on; You will have to specify which verses you speak of. 

Argument 7 - the removal argument

Objection L: I’m sorry to bang this drum again, but, having a preterist interpretation provides no issue between this passage and universalism. This event already happened when the old religious system of Israel was obliterated. The church “kingdom that cannot be shaken” was in fact not shaken when Israel was almost annihilated.

Reply: It seems that the lynchpin of your rebuttal is preterism. So the ball is in your court to show that it's the correct view. 

Objection M:  “For our God is a consuming fire.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬. As I’ve mentioned, what the purpose and nature of this fire is would have to be examined, but if this fire indeed is a purifying fire,...

Reply: This objection relies on the word "IF" - "if this fire indeed is a purifying fire..."  Well is it? Where is the argument that it is? 

Objection N: then the context suggests that this is the kind of God who’s judgements, always are from the expression of love, as the author stated earlier:  ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭5‬-‭7‬

Reply: To whom do you think the author was speaking to? That's an important element of the context to consider. The preceding was Hebrews 11, the great chapter about those who are walking by faith.  Do all walk by faith? No. In context this to fgaithful believers; you are taking it pout of context to apply it to unrepentant unbelievers 

The resurrection of Jesus is not historical - a rebuttal

 This is a rebuttal of an argument presented on Reddit;  This is an outline of the argument presented:

Two claims

1. That “assertion” that Jesus Christ rose is theological not historical. 
2. The gospels and acts do not provide sufficient historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

(These are reiterated in the conclusion)

Sources that Christian use (the Gospels and Acts) do not meet the criteria that historians use, which are:

• Numerous 
• contemporary [to the time question]
• independent
• Impartial
• consistent with other sources

Christian sources have the following issues

A - Are of a late date

B - Are not eyewitness accounts

C - are anonymous

D - akin to the telephone 

E - Use only one source 

F - Are contradictory 

G - are biased 

Further points

I - Salem witch trials, and eyewitness accounts are unreliable, 80% failure rate to ID per Robert Buckhout 

J - The “floodgate” problem: …”Christians would have to accept religions that conflict with their beliefs like Mormonism (unless you were already Mormon), Islam, Hinduism, etc.” and all reports of “events of magic everywhere, even today”

K - Appeal to empirical observation empiricism

The rebuttal

A - Are the Gospels and Acts late?

First there is no argument presented for this. Selected scholars are cited, and a conclusion is drawn.  I could cite scholars who hold to a pre 70 A.D. date New Testamant . But the problem with this whole line of argumentation is that consensus isn’t critical thinking. Here is Bart Erhman:  I need to say that again: scholarly consensus is not evidence. But big but – if you have a view that is different from the view of the scholarly consensus, given the circumstance of who maintains the consensus, you probably should have some pretty amazing evidence of your own.

So, it comes down to who has the best explanation for the available data. But we cannot evaluate which argument the best explains data because there is NO argument presented, only the conclusions of selected scholars that are presumed to be correct. 

Remember the scholarly consensus was that the Hittites were a fictious people since there was no archaeological or historical evidence to support their existence. Except for the Biblical record and that “biased” piece of fiction certainly couldn’t be trusted in this matter. Until it could be  This is one of many examples where the “scholarly consensus” was proven wrong. So we have no reason to simply accept any scholarly consensus 

 As I argued here]the Gospels and Acts, the entire New Testament, in fact, is early. In short  the Jewish War in 66 , the Neronian persecution of the late 60s , the fall of Jerusalem in 70; there is no mention of the death of Peter, Paul, or James at the hands of the Sanhedrin in ca. 62, which is recorded by Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews 20.9.1.200. Luke had no problem recording the martyrdom of Stephen (Acts 7:58) or James of Zebedee (Acts 12:2). And yet, Luke writes nothing about the deaths of Peter, Paul, and James. These were the three central leaders of the early church, but Luke doesn’t even hint at their deaths. Easy to explain if none of the their deaths had yet to happen. 

A question

Do atheists/critics here also rail against the “myth” of Alexander the Great? If not, why not?

Alexander the Great lived ~356-323 BCE, but we only know about him due to: 

Diodorus Siculus' Library of History - c. 30 BCE  [350 yrs later]

Quintus Curtius Rufus' Histories of Alexander the Great - c. 40 CE [360 yrs later]

Plutarch's Life of Alexander - c. 100 CE [425 yrs later]

Arrian's Anabasis of Alexander - c. [450 yrs later]

Justin's Epitome of Pompeius Trogus - c. 200 CE [525 yrs later]

This seems to be a double standard fallacy that is consistently used by atheists/critics; Judging the historicity of Jesus by one measure and the historicity of others ancients by a different standard. 

B - Are not eyewitness accounts

The only “argument” presented is the scholarly consensus of a late date. And thus any eyewitness would be long dead. However since we have good reason to believe that the New Testament was written early – see above – then there is no reason to discount the plentiful eyewitness accounts of the Risen Jesus 

C - are anonymous

Anonymity of the sources is not a death sentence for a historical document and should not be used as some kind of indictment of any anonymous ancient text. 

If rejecting an anonymous document is a standard used historians, I am have not been able to confirm it,  in fact, historians do allow for the use of anonymous texts to establish historical facts. See Gottschalk,  A Guide to Historical Method p 169 – If you have a source controverting this please provide it. 

Craig Evans adds an even stronger argument concerning the “anonymous” Gospels. He states, “In every single text that we have where the beginning or the ending of the work survives, we find the traditional authorship.” full argument here 

If we have people arbitrarily attaching names to the Gospels throughout the centuries, why is it that we don’t see that in the extant documents?  Why do we see only “Matthew” attached to Gospel attributed to him? And the same for Mark, Luke, and John?  

Evans summarizes, *“There are no anonymous copies of the Gospels, and there are no copies of the canonical Gospels under different names. Unless evidence to the contrary should surface, we should stop talking about anonymous Gospels and late, unhistorical superscriptions and subscriptions"* Craig A. Evans, Jesus and the Manuscripts: What We Can Learn from the Oldest Texts, page 53

D - akin to the telephone game

The Bible was not translated similarly to how the telephone game is played. The telephone game is designed to be confusing for the sake of fun. The Biblical authors did everything they could to preserve the accuracy of the biblical texts.

Oral traditions were involved in preserving some biblical texts, but this does not mean the oral traditions were not scrutinized and transmitted correctly. Similar to how a martial art is taught, repetition was used and perfection was expected by Jewish teachers. 

Oral culture is a culture in which stories are learned and passed on primarily by word of mouth. Those people tend not to rely on written accounts. Because the United States and Western Europe are not oral cultures, many people in these cultures struggle to understand how facts can be reliably communicated orally. But there is ample evidence that people who do live in oral cultures are capable of seemingly near-impossible feats of memory and accuracy.

The telephone game:

a) the message is heard and passed along one person at a time,

b) there are no controls over the message,

c) there is no cost attached to reliable or unreliable transmission.

All of this makes it fundamentally different from the oral transmission of the Gospels:

a) The biblical stories were relayed in communities (not one-to-one),

b) when the stories were shared in community, many people knew the stories and would correct mistakes relayed in the retelling,

c) the people retelling the stories had a strong personal interest in the truthfulness of what they were saying, especially when persecution of the church increased.

The telephone game is irrelevant to how the oral tradition worked.

E - Use only one source

The further back in time one travels, the thinner the source material becomes. Sources for WWII are vast beyond the ability of anyone to master them. Sources for the Napoleonic era is abundant and more than adequate. Sources for the Hundred Years War are meager and somewhat fragmentary. For the Carolingian Period, one really needs to dig deep to adequately cover any topic. The Roman Empire is a jigsaw puzzle missing a significant number of pieces. Ancient civilizations are lucky to have one source to an event. 

Let one example suffice: the details of the demise of Pliny the Elder while he was attempting to rescue a group of Pompeiians when Vesuvius exploded in 79 AD are known from **one source only** - the report written by his son, Pliny the Younger, who was also present that day.

So to have one source for a historical event is not unheard of in history. And to reject the Gospels and Acts on the basis is to be guilty of the Special pleading  fallacy

The similarities among the synoptic gospels, the whole basis for the synoptic problem are vastly overstated; see this harmony of the Gospels and see how dissimilar they actually are. 

Secondly, the similarities are better explained as artifacts of relying on the same witnesses or of different witnesses relating the same events. 

F - Are contradictory

For every alleged contradiction there are better explanations of the passage in question. But let’s look at the specific contradictions mentioned.

Note: A logical contradiction is the conjunction of a statement S and its denial not-S. In logic, it is a fundamental law- the law of non contradiction- that a statement and its denial cannot both be true at the same time.

Many atheists/critics fail to recognize in their critique of the Bible that additional information is not necessarily contradictory information. Many also fail to realize that these independent writers are at liberty to mention every detail, or as few as they want.

What is also fun to note is that atheists/critics will allege that the Gospel writers “copied” one another, then in the same breathe show differences, which undermines their first point!

Did Jesus carry his cross the entire way himself, or did Simon of Cyrene carry it (John 19:17, Mark 15:21, Matthew 27:32, and Luke 23:26)?

Both carried the cross.  John 19:17 does not say that Jesus carried the cross alone the **entire** distance or that **only** Jesus carried the cross,  it says he bore his own cross, which He did. A contradiction occurs when one statement makes another statement impossible but both are supposed to be true.  John not adding that detail doesn’t equal a contradiction. 

Did both thieves mock Jesus, or did only one of them mock him, and the other come to his defense (Mark 15:32, Matthew 27:44, and Luke 23:40-43)? 

While Luke 23:39 does say “ One of the criminals…” this is not the same thing as ONLY one of the thief reviled Jesus.  Recording how one person was doing something is **not** the same thing as saying ONLY one person did something..

Luke seems to be relating what was specifically said by one of the thieves. Both men can be reviling Jesus in the beginning but later one of the thief has a change of heart. 

What did the women see in the tomb, one man, two men, or one angel (Mark 16:5, Luke 24:4, and Matthew 28:2)? 

First, wherever there are two angels [or men] , there is also one! The fact that Mark only referenced the angel (“man”) who addressed the women shouldn’t be problematic. The fact that Matthew only referenced one angel does not preclude the fact that two angels were present.

Even though Luke did not specifically refer to the two men as angels, the fact that he described these beings as “men in clothes that gleamed like lightning” (Luke 24:4) should have been a dead giveaway. Moreover, he was  addressing a predominantly Gentile audience, Luke no doubt measured his words carefully so as not to unnecessarily give rise to their pagan superstitions.

Finally, after reading the accounts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, or John for that matter, any critical thinker has ample data to determine that the “man” described by Mark was an angel; that the “men in clothes that gleamed like lighting” were angelic; and that Matthew’s mention of only one angel does not preclude the possibility that another was present.

Did the disciples never leave Jerusalem, or did they immediately leave and go to Galilee (Luke 24:49-53, Acts 1:4, and Matthew 28:16)?

Three times in Matthew, it is recorded that certain disciples of Jesus were instructed to meet the Jesus in Galilee after his resurrection (Matt 26:32; 28:7, 10). In Matthew 28:16 we see that the disciples went to Galilee. So, Jesus desired to meet with his disciples in Galilee. His disciples obeyed. Jesus did not rebuke them.

But, according to Luke 24:33-43, he also desired to meet with them in Jerusalem. The two places are about three  days journey from one another. People can't be in the same place at the same time, so this is a contradiction, right?

We must remember that the resurrection accounts of Jesus are coming from different, independent witnesses, So, a reasonable explanation is that Jesus met with his disciples in both places - but at different times. It appears that on Easter Day, he met with all of the disciples (except Thomas) in Jerusalem just as the Gospel writers Luke and John recorded (Luke 24:33-43; John 20:19-25). 

We know that Jesus appeared to the disciples a number of times during the forty days on earth after his resurrection (cf. 1 Cor 15:1-7). Matthew, Luke, and John only mention some of the more prominent instances. Though Luke does not mention the trip to Galilee, in Acts 1:3 he states that there was a forty day period before Jesus' ascension. A lot can happen in forty days; including a three day trip.

(1) Assuming Jesus' words were stated on Easter Day, they were not stated in an absolute sense, but with an implied contingency (as determined from the other 3 Gospel accounts), given a future planned meeting in Galilee.

(2) The words in Luke 24:44 could have been stated on Day 40. The disciples did in fact stay in Jerusalem for ten more days, until Pentecost, as Luke himself relates in Acts 1:13.

It's merely an assumption to assert that Jesus spoke Luke 24:44 on Easter Day. The use of the Greek "de" (meaning "and," "then," or "now") to begin Luke 24:44 does not necessitate immediacy, but merely at "a time after." Witnesses do not always share things in chronological order - this includes the Gospel writers as well. The Gospels jump from topic to topic without any warnings at times (see Luke 4:1-4; Matt 4:1-11). At times information is just skipped; just like we skip it today.

 Both statements can be true. Just because information is omitted in one statement does not make the other statement false. In Luke 24, the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus in Galilee were omitted, but commented upon by both Matthew and John. However, notice that Luke never stated that Jesus remained only in Jerusalem from the day of his resurrection until the day he ascended up into Heaven. Acts 1:3 leaves a lot of room for a lot more activity (cf. John 21:25).

G – are biased

This objection eats itself. Everyone is biased. If the objection is to rejected any and all biased accounts, then all accounts must be tossed.  

I - The “floodgate” problem: …”Christians would have to accept religions that conflict with their beliefs like Mormonism (unless you were already Mormon), Islam, Hinduism, etc.” and all reports of “events of magic everywhere, even today”

When Christians say, or at least this Christian says, the supernatural what is meant is that a physical only model of the world is illogical we have good reason to think that [the universe was fine-tuned for life, the origin of DNA is best explianed by design the best explaination for all that is God 

 Anything "supernatural" must be in that context. 

J - eyewitness accounts are unreliable, 80% failure rate to ID per Robert Buckhout

This was  “A mock crime, a mugging and purse snatch, was staged as representative of the usually difficult observation conditions present in crime situations”

This study is mis-applied]

On one hand we have someone who was 

1) unknown to the witnesses, 

2) who was seen only for a few seconds, and 

3) who changed his appearance - a slight mustache during the crime but not in the lineup film 

Versus Jesus who 

1) walked, talked, taught, ate with His disciples [and others] for 42 months, then 

2) post Resurrection, who walked, talked, taught, ate with His disciples [and others] for a time and 

3) didn’t change His appearance [though He did hide who He was for some, temporarily] 

So we are comparing apples to oranges here. For an analogy to be a valid analogy the comparison between two objects must be similar. Given the above there is too much dissimilarity for this to be a reasonable or justifiable analogy. 

K - Appeal to empirical observation empiricism

Reason is the basis of knowledge not empirical observation. And we know that Philosophical Naturalism is logically self-defeating, so any who hold to that idea need to address how they ground goal-oriented, critical thinking in a physical-only model of the world where all things are caused by the antecedent physical condition acting in accordance with the physical laws.

Those that do not hold to Philosophical Naturalism, I’d ask what then is the objection to something acting outside the bounds of the physical laws? 

Conclusion:

The two claims revisited:

1 - That “assertion” that Jesus Christ rose is theological not historical. 

First, we see the OP attempted to Poison the well (a pre-emptive ad hominem strike against an opponent). Here it’s suggested that all Christians have are assertions not arguments grounded in facts. Why do that unless one is not confident of one’s view being able to compete and an intellectual discussion?

Secondly, the main (only?) argument is basically a presumption of naturalism or as Ruse puts it “but to act as if [naturalism] were” while evaluating data. 

Thirdly, given the arguments linked above we do have good reason to think that, sans the presumption of naturalism, the Resurrection of Jesus is historical. 

2 - The gospels and acts do not provide sufficient historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Given the above we do have good reasons to think that the evidence presented in the Gospels and Acts are exactly what was the criteria that historians use:

• Numerous 

• contemporary [to the time question]

• independent

• consistent with other sources

I left out “impartial” since no one is impartial.

I think this argument was an example of skeptical thinking, but skeptical thinking is not critical thinking It’s a low bar to sow doubt. The higher bar is to offer a better explanation  for the facts surrounding the Resurrection of Jesus).

Objection A - human testimony is obviously not sufficient to establish such a suspension of natural laws occured. There is no way to grant the resurrection of Jesus without opening a floodgate of millions of other supernatural claims

Reply - First, can you explan why its "obvious" human testimony is obviously not sufficient to establish such a suspension of natural laws? 

Second I'm not saying not saying that any human testimony can establish a suspension of natural laws; I am saying that since a physical-only model of reality is illogical, and that God is the best explanation for reality, and that [the universe was fine-tuned for life, the origin of DNA is best explianed by design the best explaination for all that is God thus thest Best explaination for the facts surround Jesus is that He rose from the dead. 

Objection B - There is no way to grant the resurrection of Jesus without opening a floodgate of millions of other supernatural claims

Reply - I guess you didn't read the  “floodgate” problem above

Objection C - What puzzles me is that an omniscient god could have anticipated skeptical reaction and preempted it by arranging conditions such that the resurrection was extraordinarily well attested.

Reply: There is more than enough evidence, but nothing can overcome, chronic skepticism - a suspicion about everything, that's a sickness. Suspicion means you've made a foregone conclusion; that's why one should be a critical thinker not skeptical thinker. 

Objection D - Jesus could have been a real person who was mythologized after his death.

How does one then explain the empty tomb? Various theories are examnied here 

Objection E - You are presupposing that the Bible must be accurate

For investigatory purposes one must assume that a text or testimony is accurate.  For example, when police take statements regarding an incident they assume that the statements are true and accurate then they can look for inconsistencies errors etc.  Assuming the document is the beginning of the investigation, not the end.  If one concludes that the document is true and accurate then there must be solid reasons for it. 

Objection E -You trying to control the narrative of what exactly is a "contradiction."

It's the law of non contradiction [one of the fundamental laws of logic] connect contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense and at the same time. If you think you have a better attested definition please provide it