Showing posts with label resurrection. Show all posts
Showing posts with label resurrection. Show all posts

Tuesday, December 30, 2025

James Fodor’s RHBS Hypothesis

 James Fodor’s RHBS Hypothesis is a naturalistic framework designed to explain the historical data surrounding the origins of Christianity without appealing to a supernatural resurrection. The acronym stands for Removal (of the body), Hallucinations, Bias (cognitive), and Socialization.

The following is a structured rebuttal to this hypothesis, drawing from common arguments in historical apologetics (e.g., by scholars like Gary Habermas, William Lane Craig, and N.T. Wright).

1. Critique of Removal - The Empty Tomb

The "Removal" step posits that Jesus' body was not resurrected but simply moved from the tomb—likely by Joseph of Arimathea—to a secondary, permanent burial site. Critics argue this explanation fails on several historical and practical grounds.

A. The Implausibility of Joseph's Motive

The primary candidate for moving the body in Fodor's theory is Joseph of Arimathea. However, this creates a psychological contradiction:

  • Pious Jew vs. Sabbath Breaker: Joseph is described as a pious, law-abiding member of the Sanhedrin. Jewish law strictly prohibited handling dead bodies on the Sabbath (which began Friday at sundown). To move the body after the initial burial would require him to either violate the Sabbath or wait until Saturday night/Sunday morning—precisely when the women arrived.

  • Why Move It? If Joseph gave Jesus an honorable burial in his own new tomb (as the Gospels state), why move him later? The "criminal's graveyard" theory suggests Jesus shouldn't have been in a "honorable" tomb, but if Joseph already took the risk to ask Pilate for the body and bury him honorably, moving him to a shameful pit later makes little sense. It undoes his own act of charity.

B. The Silence of the Authorities

If the body was moved by a human agent (Joseph or the Romans), the location of the body would be known to at least one key group.

  • The Logic of Self-Preservation: The Jewish authorities in Jerusalem were desperate to stop the spread of Christianity, which accused them of murdering the Messiah. If Joseph (a colleague of theirs) had moved the body, he could simply have said, "I moved him to the trench graves south of the city."

  • The Failure to Exhume: The easiest way to crush the "Resurrection" message would be to produce the corpse. The fact that the High Priest and Sanhedrin never produced a body - and instead resorted to claiming the disciples stole it - strongly implies they did not know where it was.

C. The Stolen Body Propaganda

The Gospel of Matthew (28:11-15) records that the authorities bribed soldiers to say, "His disciples came by night and stole Him away while we slept."

  • Admission of the Empty Tomb: Apologists argue this lie is historically significant because it contains an implicit admission: The tomb was empty. If the body were still there (or known to be elsewhere), they wouldn't need to invent a theft story.

  • Inconsistent with Removal: If the authorities (or Joseph) had moved the body officially, the "official story" would simply be "We moved him." The need to invent a theft conspiracy suggests they were genuinely baffled by the missing body.

D. Practical & Logistical Hurdles

Moving the body wasn't just a matter of picking it up; it involved significant physical obstacles.

  • The Stone: Archaeological evidence suggests rolling stones for tombs were massive (often 1-2 tons). Moving one would be noisy and require multiple men, making a "secret" removal highly difficult in a crowded city during Passover.

  • The Grave Clothes: The Gospel of John (20:6-7) reports the linen wrappings were left lying in the tomb, with the face cloth folded separately. A grave robber or someone moving a body would essentially never unwrap a bloody, spiced corpse before carrying it. They would take the body and the wrappings. The presence of the abandoned linens suggests the body passed through them, not that it was carried out of them.

E. Lack of Secondary Burial Evidence

First-century Jewish burial customs often involved a two-step process: (1) Flesh decays in a tomb, (2) Bones are collected into an ossuary (bone box) a year later.

  • Too Soon for Ossuaries: Fodor's "Removal" requires an immediate secondary burial (within hours or days). This contradicts Jewish custom. The body would need to decompose for a year before being moved to an ossuary.

  • No Venerated Tomb: If the disciples secretly knew where the "real" body was (or if Joseph did), that site would likely become a secret shrine. Yet, there is zero historical trace of any tomb of Jesus being venerated other than the empty one.

Summary Argument Against Removal of the Body

For the "Removal" theory to work, Joseph of Arimathea (a pious man) must have broken Jewish law to move a body he just honored, hidden it so well that neither the disciples nor his own Sanhedrin colleagues could find it, and then remained silent while a massive religious movement based on a "lie" exploded in his own city - a movement that eventually led to the persecution and death of people he likely knew. Critics find this chain of events psychologically and historically implausible.

2. Critique of Hallucinations  - The Appearances

The "Hallucinations" step of the RHBS hypothesis suggests that the disciples’ belief in the resurrection was sparked by grief-induced hallucinations, which they mistook for the actual presence of Jesus. Critics argue this explanation contradicts both clinical understanding of hallucinations and the specific historical claims of the Gospels.

A. The Implausibility of Shared Hallucinations

The most significant hurdle for the hallucination theory is the claim that groups of people saw Jesus simultaneously.

  • Hallucinations are Individual: Clinical psychology defines hallucinations as "individual, internal experiences," comparable to dreams. They happen in the mind of a single person.

  • The Group Dream Analogy: Just as it is impossible for multiple people to fall asleep and share the exact same dream, it is astronomically low for multiple individuals (such as Peter, the Twelve, or the 500) to simultaneously project the same hallucination of Jesus. To explain the group appearances reported in the Gospels, Fodor must posit a mass delusion event that lacks clinical precedent.

B. The Physicality of the Encounters

The specific nature of the interactions recorded in the Gospels is incompatible with visual or auditory hallucinations.

  • Multi-Sensory Evidence: The disciples did not just "see" Jesus; the text points out that they reported eating with him, touching his wounds, and holding long conversations. Hallucinations generally do not allow for this kind of sustained, tangible interaction (e.g., watching a figure eat food).

  • The Legend Defense: To maintain the hallucination theory, Fodor is forced to argue that these specific physical details (like Thomas touching the wounds) are later "legendary embellishments" rather than historical facts. Critics argue this is a circular dismissal of the primary source documents simply because they contradict the naturalistic hypothesis.

C. Inconsistency with Contagious Hysteria

While mass hysteria or social delusions can occur, they typically require a specific, highly charged environment. The resurrection appearances do not fit this mold.

  • No Uniform Pattern: The text highlights that the appearances occurred in widely varying contexts: to different people, both indoors and outdoors, and at different times of day.

  • Lack of Hysteria Markers: This variance lacks the "uniformity usually seen in contagious social hysteria or shared delusions". A shared delusion typically happens in a controlled, high-pressure setting (like a religious frenzy), not sporadically to different groups in calm settings (like eating breakfast by a lake).

Summary Argument Against Hallucinations

For the Hallucinations theory to work, one must accept a medical anomaly: that multiple people projected the exact same complex hallucination simultaneously, repeatedly, and in diverse settings. Furthermore, one must assume that the specific details of physical contact and conversation in the historical records are fabrications. Critics argue it is more rational to believe the accounts reflect a physical reality than a never document, before or since, series of matching mental projections.

3. Critique of Bias  - Cognitive Distortion

The Bias step of the RHBS hypothesis argues that cognitive biases—specifically confirmation bias (seeing what you expect to see) and cognitive dissonance (mental stress from conflicting beliefs)—led the disciples to "reframe" their grief into a belief in the resurrection. Critics argue that this psychological explanation fails when applied to key individuals and the cultural context of the time.

A. The Problem of Hostile Witnesses (Paul)

The "Bias" theory assumes that the witnesses had a predisposition to believe Jesus was the Messiah. While this might apply to Peter or John, it completely fails to explain Paul (Saul of Tarsus).

  • Negative Bias: Paul was not a grieving follower; he was a zealous Pharisee and a violent persecutor of the early church. His "bias" was strongly anti-Christian. He believed Jesus was a false teacher and a heretic cursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23).

  • Conversion Against Interest: Confirmation bias reinforces existing beliefs; it does not typically cause a sudden, radical 180-degree turn in a hostile opponent. For Paul to convert, he had to overcome his deep-seated theological training and social standing. The Bias theory cannot account for why a happy, successful persecutor would hallucinate the very person he hated and then dedicate his life to him.

B. The Problem of Skeptical Witnesses (James)

Similar to Paul, James (the brother of Jesus) presents a hurdle for the bias hypothesis.

  • Prior Skepticism: The Gospels report that during Jesus' ministry, his brothers did not believe in him. In ancient collectivist cultures, it was shameful for a family to reject the eldest son's claims, yet James remained a skeptic.

  • No "Grief" Motive: Unlike the twelve disciples, James was not a devoted follower who had "left everything" for Jesus. He didn't have the same level of cognitive dissonance (the need to justify a wasted life) that Peter might have had.

  • Radical Transformation: After the crucifixion, James suddenly becomes a leader of the church and is eventually martyred for his belief in his brother's resurrection. Critics argue the most parsimonious explanation for this change is the one Paul cites in 1 Corinthians 15:7: "Then he appeared to James".

C. Wrong Jewish Expectations

Fodor’s argument relies on the idea that the disciples "invented" the idea of resurrection to cope with Jesus' death. However, this assumes they had the theological categories to do so. Historians argue they did not.

  • Resurrection was End Times Only: First-century Jews believed in a resurrection, but only as a general event for everyone at the end of history (Daniel 12:2). They had no concept of a single Messiah dying and rising individually in the middle of history.

  • The Martyr Option: If the disciples were suffering from cognitive dissonance, the culturally natural way to resolve it would be to conclude that Jesus was a martyr (like the Maccabean martyrs) or that his spirit had been vindicated by God.

  • Alien Theology: To invent the idea that "the Messiah has resurrected bodily now" was to invent a completely new theological category. Critics argue that hallucinations and biases generally project images from one's own culture; they do not create complex new theologies that contradict cultural upbringing. If they were hallucinating, they should have seen Jesus "in heaven" or "in Abraham's bosom" - not walking around on earth with a physical body.

Summary Argument Against Bias

The Bias theory works best for people who already want to believe. However, it crumbles when applied to enemies (Paul) and skeptics (James) who had no desire for the resurrection to be true. Furthermore, it fails to explain why Jewish disciples would hallucinate a type of resurrection (individual, bodily, pre-End Times) that their religion and culture taught them was impossible.

4. Critique of Socialization  - Legendary Development

The "Socialization" step of the RHBS hypothesis argues that after the initial hallucinations, the group dynamics of the early disciples worked to suppress doubt and standardize the resurrection story. Fodor suggests that through conversation and social reinforcement, a messy, confused memory was polished into a consistent narrative of a physical resurrection. Critics argue that the historical timeline and the pressure of persecution make this "legendary development" impossible.

A. The Timeline is Too Short (The Early Creed)

The "Socialization" theory relies on the idea that stories change and grow over time (like a game of "telephone"). However, historical evidence suggests the core resurrection narrative was fixed almost immediately.

  • The 1 Corinthians 15 Creed: The text points to the creed found in 1 Corinthians 15:3-7, which Paul recites. Scholars across the spectrum, including skeptics like Gerd Lüdemann, date this creed to within 3–5 years of the crucifixion.

  • No Time for Legend: Legends typically require generations to develop, as eyewitnesses must die off before invented details can replace historical memory. The fact that a formalized creed listing specific appearances (to Cephas, the Twelve, the 500) existed almost immediately suggests the story was "locked in" from the start, leaving no window for the gradual "socialization" Fodor describes.

B. The Price of the Lie (Persecution vs. Social Pressure)

Fodor argues that social reinforcement (the desire to fit in and agree with the group) kept the disciples from questioning the story. Critics argue this ignores the brutal reality of their situation.

  • Social Reinforcement has Limits: Social pressure is effective in comfortable, insular groups (like modern cults) where agreeing with the leader brings status and safety. It is far less effective when agreeing with the group brings imprisonment, beatings, and death.

  • The Break Point: If the resurrection were merely a "socially constructed lie" or a fragile exaggeration, the intense pressure of persecution would have cracked it. In high-stakes interrogations or under the threat of execution, "noble lies" usually crumble as individuals seek to save themselves. The fact that none of the key leaders "broke" or confessed that they were making it up suggests they were convinced by a reality they could not deny, rather than a social agreement they felt pressured to uphold.

C. The Presence of Eyewitness Guardrails

The Socialization theory assumes the disciples could freely invent or modify the story to make it sound better. However, they were preaching in Jerusalem, where the events happened, surrounded by people who were there.

  • Correcting the Narrative: The text implies that "historical memory" was still active. If a small group tried to "socialize" a story that Jesus ate fish with them or appeared to 500 people, the living eyewitnesses (both friendly and hostile) served as a check. You cannot "socially reinforce" a fiction when the community around you has the knowledge to falsify it.

Summary Argument Against Socialization

For the "Socialization" theory to work, one must believe that a group of frightened people invented a complex theology, formalized it into a creed within months, and then unanimously held to that "social construct" even as they were tortured and killed for it. Critics argue that the Resurrection Hypothesis is the only explanation strong enough to account for this immediate, unshakeable, and life-altering conviction.

Summary: The Perfect Storm Objection

The primary weakness of the RHBS hypothesis is that it requires a "conspiracy of unlikely events." For RHBS to work, you need:

  1. Joseph to move the body secretly.

  2. AND multiple disciples to independently hallucinate.

  3. AND a hostile persecutor (Paul) to hallucinate the same figure.

  4. AND a skeptical brother (James) to hallucinate the same figure.

  5. AND a social group to unanimously agree on a theology (bodily resurrection) that contradicted their cultural upbringing.

Here is an expanded analysis of why critics view the RHBS hypothesis as a "conspiracy of unlikely events."

The core argument here is statistical and probabilistic: while a skeptic might argue that one of these events is possible (e.g., a hallucination), the odds of all five occurring in the exact sequence necessary to launch Christianity are vanishingly small.

A. The Improbability of the Secret Removal

For the first step to work, Joseph of Arimathea (or a similar figure) must act completely out of character.

  • The Contradiction: He must be pious enough to request the body for proper burial, yet impious enough to violate Sabbath laws and Jewish custom to move it later.

  • The Perfect Silence: He then has to maintain this secret perfectly, even as the city erupts in chaos. He must be willing to let the disciples (whom he knows are wrong) be persecuted and killed for a lie he could expose with a single sentence. Critics argue that human nature rarely holds secrets this tight when lives are at stake.

B. The Anomaly of Group Hallucinations

The second "storm" factor is the medical impossibility of the disciples' experiences.

  • Defying Clinical Definitions: Hallucinations are individual mental events, like dreams. For Peter, the Twelve, and the 500 to see the same thing is as unlikely as a whole room of people having the exact same dream at the same time.

  • Multi-Sensory Coincidence: They didn't just see a figure; they claimed to touch wounds and eat fish. For the RHBS theory to hold, the group must have collectively hallucinated these specific, tangible details simultaneously.

C. The Psychological Reversal of Paul

The third factor requires a hostile witness to experience a confirmation bias for a belief he hated.

  • The Anti-Bias Problem: Paul was a happy, successful persecutor. He had no grief, no cognitive dissonance, and no desire to join the church.  It contradicts everything known about how psychology and bias work.

D. The Conversion of James

The fourth factor involves James, the skeptical brother of Jesus.

  • Family Skepticism: James rejected Jesus during his life. He wasn't a follower. Yet, he suddenly became the leader of the church and died for the belief that his brother was God.

  • The Missing Link: RHBS offers no clear reason for this change. The "Perfect Storm" objection notes that we have to simply assume James had a similar breakdown/hallucination as the disciples, despite having a completely different starting mindset.

E. The Impossible Consensus

Finally, the group had to agree on a theological explanation that made no sense to them culturally.

  • Inventing a New Category: First-century Jews did not believe in an individual, bodily resurrection before the end of time. If they were hallucinating, they should have seen Jesus as a ghost or a spirit in heaven.

  • Unanimous Agreement: Instead, this disparate group—fishermen, tax collectors, former enemies, and skeptics—all agreed on a heretical new idea: that the Messiah had bodily risen now. Critics argue that without a physical reality to force this conclusion, the group would have fractured into different interpretations (some saying he was a ghost, others saying he was an angel) rather than holding to a unified, dangerous creed.

Conclusion: Occam’s Razor

The "Perfect Storm" objection essentially appeals to Occam's RazorEntities should not be multiplied without necessity.

  • RHBS Hypothesis: Requires five separate, highly improbable psychological and physical anomalies to happen by chance in quick succession.

  • Resurrection Hypothesis: Posits one single cause (Jesus rose from the dead) that explains all five data points instantly (the tomb was empty because he left; they saw him because he was there; Paul and James converted because they met him).

Critics of Fodor's RHBS Hypothesis conclude that a historical Resurrection is the simpler explanation because it doesn't rely on a chain of increasingly unlikely coincidences. Additionally, it accounts for all these data points (the empty tomb, the conversion of enemies, the origin of the belief) with a single causal agent, rather than relying on a string of unrelated psychological and physical anomalies.



Sunday, January 19, 2025

The discrepancies in the Resurrection accounts

The critics claim discrepancies in the Resurrection accounts and this should be cause for one to doubt the truthfulness of the Resurrection.

The argument usually goes something like this post found on Reddit — I'll post it here in full below in blue: 

These are not minor discrepancies, such as “which color was Jesus' cloak?”, “were there angels or shining men at the tomb?” or “did Jesus ride on a colt or a donkey?”, these are factual discrepancies, in sense that one source says X and the other says Y, completely different information.

Tomb Story:

1. When did the women go to the tomb?

Synoptics: Early in the morning.
John: Night time.

2. Which women went to the tomb?

Matthew: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, and Joanna.
Mark: Mary Magdalene, Mary of James, and Salome. [1]
Luke: Mary Magdalene, Mary mother of James, and Joanna.
John: Mary Magdalene and an unknown person. [2]

3. Did the disciples believe the women?

Matthew: Yes.
Mark: No. [3]
Luke: No, except Peter.

4. Which disciples went to the tomb?

Luke: Peter.
John: Peter and Beloved disciple.

Sequence of Appearances:

5. To whom did Jesus appear first?

Matthew: The women as they fled.
Mark: Mary Magdalene while inside the tomb.
Luke: Two disciples (one of them Cleopas). [4]
John: Mary Magdalene while inside the tomb.
Paul: Peter.

6. Afterward, Jesus appeared to?

Matthew, Luke, and Paul: The Twelve. [5]
Mark: Two disciples (one of them Cleopas).
John: The Ten (Thomas wasn't there)

7. How many of the Twelve were present when Jesus appeared?

Synoptics and Paul: All of them. (11) [5]
John: The Ten (Thomas wasn't there).

Notes

1. the original Gospel of Mark says that multiple women went to the Tomb, but the Longer ending mentions Mary Magdalene alone.

2. At first seams like Mary Magdalene went alone to the Tomb, but in John 20:2 she says:

So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and “we” don’t know where they have put him!”

3. The original Gospel of Mark ends with the women silent, because they where afraid, but I considered the Longer ending in this case, where the Disciples didn't believe Mary Magdalene

4. When the Two disciples went to say to the Twelve that they've seen Jesus, Peter already had a vision of Jesus, Mark says that after Mary Magdalene Jesus appeared directly to the Two disciples, but Paul says that Peter got the vision first, I preferred to give priority to Mark, but that's another conflicting information.

They got up and returned at once to Jerusalem. There they found the Eleven and those with them, assembled together and saying, “It is true! The Lord has risen and has appeared to Simon.”

5. The Twelve and “All of them” (as Paul says) in this case is the Eleven, cause Judas Iscariot was already dead, the Twelve described by Paul means the name of the group, it's like saying: “I met the Justice league” but Batman wasn't present. 

End of quoted post

Review and Response

What is a discrepancy? According to Webster's it is the quality or state of disagreeing or being at variance or an instance of disagreeing or being at variance.

This is closely related to the term “contrary”: either of two terms (such as good and evil) that cannot both be affirmed of the same subject; though both may be false they cannot both be true; incapable of  harmonious coexistence or are logically incongruent

Since the phrase “completely different information” is used, I assume that what is meant is these accounts are incapable of association of harmonious coexistence. 

So are these 7 discrepancies/contradictions incapable of harmonious coexistence or are logically incongruent?

1. When did the women go to the tomb?

Read the passages

Matthew 28:1-10
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying. Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you.” And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”

Mark 16:1-10
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. They were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?” Looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, although it was extremely large. Entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed. And he said to them, “Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him. But go, tell His disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see Him, just as He told you.’” They went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had gripped them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid. Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons. She went and reported to those who had been with Him, while they were mourning and weeping.

Luke 24:1-10
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing; and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has [a]risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.” And they remembered His words, and returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the eleven and to all the rest. Now they were Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James; also the other women with them were telling these things to the apostles.

John 20:1-3
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb. So she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.” So Peter and the other disciple went forth, and they were going to the tomb.

1 - When did the women go to the tomb, answered:


First note that John does NOT say “night” he says “dark”: Original Greek: σκοτία; Definition: Darkness - source

John 20 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark,

Matthew 28 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. So it was still dark.

Mark 16 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought aromatic spices so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, at sunrise, they went to the tomb.

So what is the difference between, “while it was still dark”, “as it began to dawn”, and “at sunrise” if they all have the idea of darkness or darkness breaking? Answer: None.

Excursus 

I just want to point out that here are differences in accounts of Alexander the Great's campaigns. Some historians like Plutarch and Diodorus providing more anecdotal and philosophical perspective. Arrian focused on a more factual military chronicle, often drawing from sources like Ptolemy's memoirs which could sometimes exaggerate his own role in events; this can lead to discrepancies in the portrayal of battles, motivations, and Alexander's character across different accounts. 

Some accounts might portray Alexander as having a more harmonious relationship with his commanders, while others could highlight tensions and conflicts, particularly with figures like Cleitus. Some accounts suggest Alexander was driven by a desire to conquer the known world, while others emphasize his pursuit of divine status and cultural unification.

Each account might present a slightly different perspective due to the author's emphasis, bias, geographical location, or social status. But no historian says these differences equate to contradiction, and the whole Alexander the Great story, or the bulk of it, is a myth.

If historians don't dismiss the  Alexander the Great story as myth, why do critics try to use this standard with Jesus? 

If the critic is unaware, they should educate themselves and judge the Resurrection accounts with the same historical standard.

If the critic is aware, then this is just a blatant double standard fallacy — Judging similar two situations by different standards when, in fact, you should be using the same standard. It invaldates their argument and seriously undermines their intellectual integrity. 

2 - Which women went to the tomb, answered

Matthew mentions two women by name. Mark mentions three by name. Luke mentions at least three by name but describes more. John only identifies Mary Magdalene. 

Note that Matthew doesn't say that there were only 2 women; Mark doesn't say that there were only 3 women; John doesn't say that there were only 1 woman.

When examining the number of women present at the tomb of Jesus, the four accounts could all be seen as accurate representations of what really happened if the group of women included the following people:
  • Mary Magdalene
  • Mary the mother of Jesus,
  • Mary the Mother of James (and Joseph),
  • Salome, and
  • Joanna.
This group would account for the women mentioned by all four authors. All the authors speak of a group and some authors identify specific members of this group based on their personal perspective, purposes, and audience.

The Gospel authors (and the early Church) certainly had the opportunity to change the descriptions of the women to make sure they matched, but they refused to do so. As a result, we can have confidence in the reliability of these accounts.

Another factor for accuracy and authenticity: In a culture hesitant to accept the testimony of women in civil and criminal hearings, the authors of the Gospels offered women as the first witnesses of the empty tomb. 

Here is Josephus on the credibility of women: But let not a single witness be credited, but three, or two at the least, and those such whose testimony is confirmed by their good lives. But let not the testimony of women be admitted, on account of the levity and boldness of their sex. . . . (Antiquities, 4:219)

If this is a late fictional account, one might wonder why the authors didn’t insert Peter and the other male disciples or at least Nicodemus or Joseph of Arimathia. They would certainly have made the account more credible to the first hearers. Instead, all the authors describe women as the first eyewitnesses. This “negative information” makes the account more credible. Women weren’t described here to make the narrative more convincing (they actually hurt the account), but were instead described because they happen to be the true first witnesses.

Of course this isn’t in and of itself proof that the resurrection happened. It does, however, make it very unlikely the story was fabricated.




5. To whom did Jesus appear first?

Read the passages

Cleopas and another

13 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem, 14 and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15 While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17 And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. 18 Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 

19 And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21 But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22 Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, 23 and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.” 25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

28 So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther, 29 but they urged him strongly, saying, “Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” So he went in to stay with them. 30 When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight.. Luke 24:13-31

Question: Where in the verse does it say that Jesus first appeared to Cleopas and another? 
Answer: It doesn't

Cephas

4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve 1 Corinthians 15:4-5

Question: Where in the verse does it say that Jesus first appeared to Cephas?
Answer: It doesn't

The two Marys

Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothing white as snow. 4 And for fear of him the guards trembled and became like dead men. 5 But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he[a] lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you.” 8 So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. Matthew 28:1-9

Note: Both Mary's met Jesus after they departed... from the tomb [vs 8-9] - but the text doesn't say anything about this being a first appearance; so was there a prior appearance? 

Mary Magdalene

9 Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. Mark 16:9

Note: Here Mary Magdalene is clearly portrayed as the first to see Jesus post-Resurrection 

11 But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. 13 They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.” 14 Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. John 20:11-14

Note: We get a little more detail about Mary Magdalene seeing Jesus prior to departing the tomb, she saw Him but didn't recognize Him. 

So Mary Magdalene first saw Jesus at the tomb, then after departing, both Marys saw Jesus. The other passages say that others saw Jesus but none say nor imply that they were first. 

Thus, there is no contradiction about whom Jesus first appeared to post-Resurrection 

*************************************************

Note: this is a work in progress, I will address all 7 "contradictions" in the near future. 

Saturday, July 13, 2024

The resurrection of Jesus is not historical - a rebuttal

 This is a rebuttal of an argument presented on Reddit;  This is an outline of the argument presented:

Two claims

  1. That “assertion” that Jesus Christ rose is theological not historical. 
  2. The gospels and acts do not provide sufficient historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

(These are reiterated in the conclusion)

Sources that Christian use (the Gospels and Acts) do not meet the criteria that historians use, which are:

  • Numerous 
  • contemporary [to the time question]
  • independent
  • Impartial
  • consistent with other sources

Christian sources have the following issues

A - Are of a late date

B - Are not eyewitness accounts

C - are anonymous

D - akin to the telephone 

E - Use only one source 

F - Are contradictory 

G - are biased 

Further points

I - Salem witch trials, and eyewitness accounts are unreliable, 80% failure rate to ID per Robert Buckhout 

J - The “floodgate” problem: …”Christians would have to accept religions that conflict with their beliefs like Mormonism (unless you were already Mormon), Islam, Hinduism, etc.” and all reports of “events of magic everywhere, even today”

K - Appeal to empirical observation empiricism

The rebuttal

A - Are the Gospels and Acts late?

First there is no argument presented for this. Selected scholars are cited, and a conclusion is drawn.  I could cite scholars who hold to a pre 70 A.D. date New Testamant . But the problem with this whole line of argumentation is that consensus isn’t critical thinking. Here is Bart Erhman:  I need to say that again: scholarly consensus is not evidence. But big but – if you have a view that is different from the view of the scholarly consensus, given the circumstance of who maintains the consensus, you probably should have some pretty amazing evidence of your own.

So, it comes down to who has the best explanation for the available data. But we cannot evaluate which argument the best explains data because there is NO argument presented, only the conclusions of selected scholars that are presumed to be correct. 

Remember the scholarly consensus was that the Hittites were a fictious people since there was no archaeological or historical evidence to support their existence. Except for the Biblical record and that “biased” piece of fiction certainly couldn’t be trusted in this matter. Until it could be  This is one of many examples where the “scholarly consensus” was proven wrong. So we have no reason to simply accept any scholarly consensus 

 As I argued here]the Gospels and Acts, the entire New Testament, in fact, is early. In short  the Jewish War in 66 , the Neronian persecution of the late 60s , the fall of Jerusalem in 70; there is no mention of the death of Peter, Paul, or James at the hands of the Sanhedrin in ca. 62, which is recorded by Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews 20.9.1.200. Luke had no problem recording the martyrdom of Stephen (Acts 7:58) or James of Zebedee (Acts 12:2). And yet, Luke writes nothing about the deaths of Peter, Paul, and James. These were the three central leaders of the early church, but Luke doesn’t even hint at their deaths. Easy to explain if none of the their deaths had yet to happen. 

A question

Do atheists/critics here also rail against the “myth” of Alexander the Great? If not, why not?

Alexander the Great lived ~356-323 BCE, but we only know about him due to: 

Diodorus Siculus' Library of History - c. 30 BCE  [350 yrs later]

Quintus Curtius Rufus' Histories of Alexander the Great - c. 40 CE [360 yrs later]

Plutarch's Life of Alexander - c. 100 CE [425 yrs later]

Arrian's Anabasis of Alexander - c. [450 yrs later]

Justin's Epitome of Pompeius Trogus - c. 200 CE [525 yrs later]

This seems to be a double standard fallacy that is consistently used by atheists/critics; Judging the historicity of Jesus by one measure and the historicity of others ancients by a different standard. 

B - Are not eyewitness accounts

The only “argument” presented is the scholarly consensus of a late date. And thus any eyewitness would be long dead. However since we have good reason to believe that the New Testament was written early – see above – then there is no reason to discount the plentiful eyewitness accounts of the Risen Jesus 

C - are anonymous

Anonymity of the sources is not a death sentence for a historical document and should not be used as some kind of indictment of any anonymous ancient text. 

If rejecting an anonymous document is a standard used historians, I am have not been able to confirm it,  in fact, historians do allow for the use of anonymous texts to establish historical facts. See Gottschalk,  A Guide to Historical Method p 169 – If you have a source controverting this please provide it. 

Craig Evans adds an even stronger argument concerning the “anonymous” Gospels. He states, “In every single text that we have where the beginning or the ending of the work survives, we find the traditional authorship.full argument here 

If we have people arbitrarily attaching names to the Gospels throughout the centuries, why is it that we don’t see that in the extant documents?  Why do we see only “Matthew” attached to Gospel attributed to him? And the same for Mark, Luke, and John?  

Evans summarizes, *“There are no anonymous copies of the Gospels, and there are no copies of the canonical Gospels under different names. Unless evidence to the contrary should surface, we should stop talking about anonymous Gospels and late, unhistorical superscriptions and subscriptions"* Craig A. Evans, Jesus and the Manuscripts: What We Can Learn from the Oldest Texts, page 53

D - akin to the telephone game

The Bible was not translated similarly to how the telephone game is played. The telephone game is designed to be confusing for the sake of fun. The Biblical authors did everything they could to preserve the accuracy of the biblical texts.

Oral traditions were involved in preserving some biblical texts, but this does not mean the oral traditions were not scrutinized and transmitted correctly. Similar to how a martial art is taught, repetition was used and perfection was expected by Jewish teachers. 

Oral culture is a culture in which stories are learned and passed on primarily by word of mouth. Those people tend not to rely on written accounts. Because the United States and Western Europe are not oral cultures, many people in these cultures struggle to understand how facts can be reliably communicated orally. But there is ample evidence that people who do live in oral cultures are capable of seemingly near-impossible feats of memory and accuracy.

The telephone game:

a) the message is heard and passed along one person at a time,

b) there are no controls over the message,

c) there is no cost attached to reliable or unreliable transmission.

All of this makes it fundamentally different from the oral transmission of the Gospels:

a) The biblical stories were relayed in communities (not one-to-one),

b) when the stories were shared in community, many people knew the stories and would correct mistakes relayed in the retelling,

c) the people retelling the stories had a strong personal interest in the truthfulness of what they were saying, especially when persecution of the church increased.

The telephone game is irrelevant to how the oral tradition worked.

E - Use only one source

The further back in time one travels, the thinner the source material becomes. Sources for WWII are vast beyond the ability of anyone to master them. Sources for the Napoleonic era is abundant and more than adequate. Sources for the Hundred Years War are meager and somewhat fragmentary. For the Carolingian Period, one really needs to dig deep to adequately cover any topic. The Roman Empire is a jigsaw puzzle missing a significant number of pieces. Ancient civilizations are lucky to have one source to an event. 

Let one example suffice: the details of the demise of Pliny the Elder while he was attempting to rescue a group of Pompeiians when Vesuvius exploded in 79 AD are known from **one source only** - the report written by his son, Pliny the Younger, who was also present that day.

So to have one source for a historical event is not unheard of in history. And to reject the Gospels and Acts on the basis is to be guilty of the Special pleading  fallacy

The similarities among the synoptic gospels, the whole basis for the synoptic problem are vastly overstated; see this harmony of the Gospels and see how dissimilar they actually are. 

Secondly, the similarities are better explained as artifacts of relying on the same witnesses or of different witnesses relating the same events. 

F - Are contradictory

For every alleged contradiction there are better explanations of the passage in question. But let’s look at the specific contradictions mentioned.

Note: A logical contradiction is the conjunction of a statement S and its denial not-S. In logic, it is a fundamental law- the law of non contradiction- that a statement and its denial cannot both be true at the same time.

Many atheists/critics fail to recognize in their critique of the Bible that additional information is not necessarily contradictory information. Many also fail to realize that these independent writers are at liberty to mention every detail, or as few as they want.

What is also fun to note is that atheists/critics will allege that the Gospel writers “copied” one another, then in the same breathe show differences, which undermines their first point!

Did Jesus carry his cross the entire way himself, or did Simon of Cyrene carry it (John 19:17, Mark 15:21, Matthew 27:32, and Luke 23:26)?

Both carried the cross.  John 19:17 does not say that Jesus carried the cross alone the **entire** distance or that **only** Jesus carried the cross,  it says he bore his own cross, which He did. A contradiction occurs when one statement makes another statement impossible but both are supposed to be true.  John not adding that detail doesn’t equal a contradiction. 

Did both thieves mock Jesus, or did only one of them mock him, and the other come to his defense (Mark 15:32, Matthew 27:44, and Luke 23:40-43)

While Luke 23:39 does say “ One of the criminals…” this is not the same thing as ONLY one of the thief reviled Jesus.  Recording how one person was doing something is **not** the same thing as saying ONLY one person did something..

Luke seems to be relating what was specifically said by one of the thieves. Both men can be reviling Jesus in the beginning but later one of the thief has a change of heart. 

What did the women see in the tomb, one man, two men, or one angel (Mark 16:5, Luke 24:4, and Matthew 28:2)? 

First, wherever there are two angels [or men] , there is also one! The fact that Mark only referenced the angel (“man”) who addressed the women shouldn’t be problematic. The fact that Matthew only referenced one angel does not preclude the fact that two angels were present.

Even though Luke did not specifically refer to the two men as angels, the fact that he described these beings as “men in clothes that gleamed like lightning” (Luke 24:4) should have been a dead giveaway. Moreover, he was  addressing a predominantly Gentile audience, Luke no doubt measured his words carefully so as not to unnecessarily give rise to their pagan superstitions.

Finally, after reading the accounts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, or John for that matter, any critical thinker has ample data to determine that the “man” described by Mark was an angel; that the “men in clothes that gleamed like lighting” were angelic; and that Matthew’s mention of only one angel does not preclude the possibility that another was present.

Did the disciples never leave Jerusalem, or did they immediately leave and go to Galilee (Luke 24:49-53, Acts 1:4, and Matthew 28:16)?

Three times in Matthew, it is recorded that certain disciples of Jesus were instructed to meet the Jesus in Galilee after his resurrection (Matt 26:32; 28:7, 10). In Matthew 28:16 we see that the disciples went to Galilee. So, Jesus desired to meet with his disciples in Galilee. His disciples obeyed. Jesus did not rebuke them.

But, according to Luke 24:33-43, he also desired to meet with them in Jerusalem. The two places are about three  days journey from one another. People can't be in the same place at the same time, so this is a contradiction, right?

We must remember that the resurrection accounts of Jesus are coming from different, independent witnesses, So, a reasonable explanation is that Jesus met with his disciples in both places - but at different times. It appears that on Easter Day, he met with all of the disciples (except Thomas) in Jerusalem just as the Gospel writers Luke and John recorded (Luke 24:33-43; John 20:19-25). 

We know that Jesus appeared to the disciples a number of times during the forty days on earth after his resurrection (cf. 1 Cor 15:1-7). Matthew, Luke, and John only mention some of the more prominent instances. Though Luke does not mention the trip to Galilee, in Acts 1:3 he states that there was a forty day period before Jesus' ascension. A lot can happen in forty days; including a three day trip.

(1) Assuming Jesus' words were stated on Easter Day, they were not stated in an absolute sense, but with an implied contingency (as determined from the other 3 Gospel accounts), given a future planned meeting in Galilee.

(2) The words in Luke 24:44 could have been stated on Day 40. The disciples did in fact stay in Jerusalem for ten more days, until Pentecost, as Luke himself relates in Acts 1:13.

It's merely an assumption to assert that Jesus spoke Luke 24:44 on Easter Day. The use of the Greek "de" (meaning "and," "then," or "now") to begin Luke 24:44 does not necessitate immediacy, but merely at "a time after." Witnesses do not always share things in chronological order - this includes the Gospel writers as well. The Gospels jump from topic to topic without any warnings at times (see Luke 4:1-4; Matt 4:1-11). At times information is just skipped; just like we skip it today.

 Both statements can be true. Just because information is omitted in one statement does not make the other statement false. In Luke 24, the post-resurrection appearances of Jesus in Galilee were omitted, but commented upon by both Matthew and John. However, notice that Luke never stated that Jesus remained only in Jerusalem from the day of his resurrection until the day he ascended up into Heaven. Acts 1:3 leaves a lot of room for a lot more activity (cf. John 21:25).

G – are biased

This objection eats itself. Everyone is biased. If the objection is to rejected any and all biased accounts, then all accounts must be tossed.  

I - The “floodgate” problem:”Christians would have to accept religions that conflict with their beliefs like Mormonism (unless you were already Mormon), Islam, Hinduism, etc.” and all reports of “events of magic everywhere, even today”

When Christians say, or at least this Christian says, the supernatural what is meant is that a physical only model of the world is illogical we have good reason to think that [the universe was fine-tuned for life, the origin of DNA is best explianed by design the best explaination for all that is God 

 Anything "supernatural" must be in that context. 

J - eyewitness accounts are unreliable, 80% failure rate to ID per Robert Buckhout

This was  “A mock crime, a mugging and purse snatch, was staged as representative of the usually difficult observation conditions present in crime situations

This study is mis-applied]

On one hand we have someone who wa

1) unknown to the witnesses, 

2) who was seen only for a few seconds, and 

3) who changed his appearance - a slight mustache during the crime but not in the lineup film 

Versus Jesus who 

1) walked, talked, taught, ate with His disciples [and others] for 42 months, then 

2) post Resurrection, who walked, talked, taught, ate with His disciples [and others] for a time and 

3) didn’t change His appearance [though He did hide who He was for some, temporarily] 

So we are comparing apples to oranges here. For an analogy to be a valid analogy the comparison between two objects must be similar. Given the above there is too much dissimilarity for this to be a reasonable or justifiable analogy. 

KAppeal to empirical observation empiricism

Reason is the basis of knowledge not empirical observation. And we know that Philosophical Naturalism is logically self-defeating, so any who hold to that idea need to address how they ground goal-oriented, critical thinking in a physical-only model of the world where all things are caused by the antecedent physical condition acting in accordance with the physical laws.

Those that do not hold to Philosophical Naturalism, I’d ask what then is the objection to something acting outside the bounds of the physical laws? 

Conclusion:

The two claims revisited:

1 - That “assertion” that Jesus Christ rose is theological not historical. 

First, we see the OP attempted to Poison the well (a pre-emptive ad hominem strike against an opponent). Here it’s suggested that all Christians have are assertions not arguments grounded in facts. Why do that unless one is not confident of one’s view being able to compete and an intellectual discussion?

Secondly, the main (only?) argument is basically a presumption of naturalism or as Ruse puts it “but to act as if [naturalism] were” while evaluating data. 

Thirdly, given the arguments linked above we do have good reason to think that, sans the presumption of naturalism, the Resurrection of Jesus is historical. 

2 - The gospels and acts do not provide sufficient historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Given the above we do have good reasons to think that the evidence presented in the Gospels and Acts are exactly what was the criteria that historians use:

Numerous 

contemporary [to the time question]

independent

consistent with other sources

I left out “impartial” since no one is impartial.

I think this argument was an example of skeptical thinking, but skeptical thinking is not critical thinking It’s a low bar to sow doubt. The higher bar is to offer a better explanation  for the facts surrounding the Resurrection of Jesus).

Objection A - human testimony is obviously not sufficient to establish such a suspension of natural laws occured. There is no way to grant the resurrection of Jesus without opening a floodgate of millions of other supernatural claims

Reply - First, can you explan why its "obvious" human testimony is obviously not sufficient to establish such a suspension of natural laws? 

Second I'm not saying not saying that any human testimony can establish a suspension of natural laws; I am saying that since a physical-only model of reality is illogical, and that God is the best explanation for reality, and that [the universe was fine-tuned for life, the origin of DNA is best explianed by design the best explaination for all that is God thus thest Best explaination for the facts surround Jesus is that He rose from the dead. 

Objection B - There is no way to grant the resurrection of Jesus without opening a floodgate of millions of other supernatural claims

Reply - I guess you didn't read the  “floodgate” problem above

Objection C - What puzzles me is that an omniscient god could have anticipated skeptical reaction and preempted it by arranging conditions such that the resurrection was extraordinarily well attested.

Reply: There is more than enough evidence, but nothing can overcome, chronic skepticism - a suspicion about everything, that's a sickness. Suspicion means you've made a foregone conclusion; that's why one should be a critical thinker not skeptical thinker. 

Objection D - Jesus could have been a real person who was mythologized after his death.

How does one then explain the empty tomb? Various theories are examnied here 

Objection E - You are presupposing that the Bible must be accurate

For investigatory purposes one must assume that a text or testimony is accurate.  For example, when police take statements regarding an incident they assume that the statements are true and accurate then they can look for inconsistencies errors etc.  Assuming the document is the beginning of the investigation, not the end.  If one concludes that the document is true and accurate then there must be solid reasons for it. 

Objection E -You trying to control the narrative of what exactly is a "contradiction."

It's the law of non contradiction [one of the fundamental laws of logic] connect contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense and at the same time. If you think you have a better attested definition please provide it






Eyewitnesses of The Risen Jesus

The writers state emphatically that they saw and heard Jesus, and they recorded their testimony so that people all over the world would know the truth about Jesus: “And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe” (John 19:35).

And we know that the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament was written early

The writers document that Jesus told these men repeatedly that He called them for the purpose of being “His witnesses,” and to distribute a record of all He had said and done; “everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth” (Acts 1:8).

Eyewitnesses Who Saw The Risen Jesus:
The New Testament Records The Writers Stating They Saw Jesus

Contrary to critics who seek to impugn the reliability of the authors for the New Testament, the writers themselves state repeatedly that what they are recording, they saw with their eyes, heard with their ears, and they are telling the truth.

There are 387 uses of the Greek word, ὁράω (“We saw, we have seen,” In the New Testament. Clearly the writers of the New Testament are stating emphatically, they saw Jesus and they are eyewitnesses. 

The Koine-Greek text is very specific in this regard, the writers using the precise word, ὁράω, to define what they saw:

Paul said: Am I not as free as anyone else? Am I not an apostle? Haven’t I seen (ὁράω) Jesus our Lord with my own eyes? ~1 Corinthians 9:1

There are eight places in the New Testament where Paul states that he saw (ὁράω) Jesus; two additional places where Ananias and Barnabas state that Jesus appeared to Paul:
  1. Paul’s statement: 1 Corinthians 9:1
  2. On the road to Damascus: Acts 9:3-6
  3. Ananias said that Paul saw Jesus: Acts 9:17
  4. Barnabas said that Paul saw Jesus: Acts 9:27
  5. At Corinth: 1 Corinthians 15:8
  6. At Corinth: Acts 18:9-10
  7. At Jerusalem: Acts 22:6-10
  8. While praying at the Temple: Acts 22:12-21
  9. At the Roman barracks: Acts 23:11
  10. Before King Agrippa: Acts 26:12-18

The last meeting Paul had with Jesus, in Acts 26:12-18 (above), Jesus said the following to Paul:

Jesus told Paul: “But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you.” ~Acts 26:16

Peter said: that he had seen the risen Jesus with his own eyes.

For we were not making up clever stories when we told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We saw his majestic splendor with our own eyes. ~2 Peter 1:16

This is a reference by Peter to the Transfiguration of Jesus that Peter, James, and John also saw, as recorded in Matthew 17:1-6, Mark 13:26, and Luke 9:28-32. On that day Jesus showed these three men what He will look like when He returns to establish His kingdom on earth. Moses and Elijah were also with Jesus during this transfiguration.

In Mark’s Gospel, we find this text that Mark recorded as Peter recounted to him, what took place on the Mount of Transfiguration. It is this event that Peter recorded first through Mark his scribe, that Peter later cites again as the moment when he saw Jesus with His eyes and truly believed.

The Evidence Mark Was The Scribe Of Peter

Peter later wrote in 1 Peter 1:19 that this experience of seeing Jesus, as He appears after His resurrection, forever convinced him that all the prophets had written about the Messiah was penned only for Jesus.

Because of that experience, we have even greater confidence in the message proclaimed by the prophets. You must pay close attention to what they wrote, for their words are like a lamp shining in a dark place.” ~1 Peter 1:19

John Said: “We saw  him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands…We proclaim to you what we ourselves have actually seen and heard…” ~1 John 1:1-4

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning (Jesus) the Word of life…” ~1 John 1:1

James saw the risen Jesus, as recorded by Paul, who said that James also saw Jesus with his eyes after His resurrection, and finally all 12 of the Apostles saw Jesus alive, as recorded in 1 Corinthians 15:

I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures had said. He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures had said. He was seen by Peter and then by the Twelve. After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he was seen by James and later by all the apostles.” ~1 Corinthians 15:3-7

Mary saw Jesus crucified: “Standing near the cross were Jesus’ mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary (the wife of Clopas), and Mary Magdalene.” ~John 19:25

Mary was the first to see the risen Jesus: “Early on Sunday morning, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and found that the stone had been rolled away from the entrance.”…Mary was standing outside the tomb crying…She turned to leave and saw someone standing there. It was Jesus, but she didn’t recognize him. …“Mary!” Jesus said. She turned to him and cried out, “Rabboni!.~John 20:1-16

Two Disciples, on the day of Jesus’ resurrection, saw Him alive with their own eyes as they were walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus.

“13 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, 14 and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15 While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16 But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17 And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. 18 Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 19 And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20 and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21 But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22 Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, 23 and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24 Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.” 25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 So they drew near to the village to which they were going. He acted as if he were going farther, 29 but they urged him strongly, saying, “Stay with us, for it is toward evening and the day is now far spent.” So he went in to stay with them. 30 When he was at table with them, he took the bread and blessed and broke it and gave it to them. 31 And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight. 32 They said to each other, “Did not our hearts burn within us while he talked to us on the road, while he opened to us the Scriptures?” 33 And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together, 34 saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!
 ~Luke 24:13-34

Matthew records eleven of the original Apostles who saw Jesus alive on the third day after He was crucified. Paul is added later in the book of Acts. In order to be a true Apostle of Jesus, they had to see the risen Jesus:

Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” ~Acts 1:21-22

The Apostles who were eyewitness to Jesus post resurrection
  1. Simon, called Peter
  2. Andrew (Peter’s brother)
  3. James (son of Zebedee)
  4. John (James’ brother)
  5. Philip
  6. Bartholomew
  7. Thomas
  8. Matthew (the tax collector)
  9. James (son of Alphaeus)
  10. Thaddaeus
  11. Simon (the zealot)
  12. Paul of Tarsus, later.

As Matthew is recorded in the New Testament as one of the Apostles whom Jesus chose to be His witness, it is certain that Matthew saw Jesus with his own eyes, alive after being crucified.

500 Eyewitnesses Who Saw Jesus All At The Same Time

Jesus was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said. He was seen by Peter and then by the Twelve. After that, he was seen by more than 500 of his followers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he was seen by James and later by all the apostles. Last of all, as though I (Paul) had been born at the wrong time, I also saw him. ~1 Corinthians 15:4-8

These Men And Women Who Saw Jesus Alive After Dying On The Cross, Said They Are Witnesses Of The Risen Jesus

Peter: 32 “God raised Jesus from the dead, and we are all witnesses of this.” ~Acts 2:32 (NLT)

Jesus told these men that they are His witnesses and He wanted them to tell the whole world about what they had seen Jesus accomplish.

So when the apostles were with Jesus, they kept asking him, “Lord, has the time come for you to free Israel and restore our kingdom?” He replied, “The Father alone has the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to know. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere—in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” ~Acts 1:6-8

In describing their eyewitness testimony of Jesus. There is no ambiguity in what these writers meant; they saw Jesus with their eyes, they heard Him with their ears, they wrote a truthful testimony.


Saturday, July 6, 2024

Was The Resurrection of Jesus Christ a Mythological Development?

An argument for the Mythological Development of the Risen Jesus is put forth this way:

1) The Gospel of Mark which is the earliest gospel contains no post resurrection appearances,

2) the later Gospels of Matthew includes post resurrection appearances, and

3) Luke includes more detail.

4) But only in the Gospel of John [which is the last Gospel] do we get doubting Thomas where And famously says he doesn't believe that it's the risen Christ, and Jesus says come and touch my wounds, and he touches his way and he said my Lord and my God and Jesus says you believe because you've seen blessed of those who believe that don't see it

5) the myth ends in a moral lesson to believe without evidence.

So, we have is this mythological development of no resurrection appearances and as the time goes on as we get further away from the source the stories get more embellished, fantastical, and preposterous, ending in a moral lesson to "believe without evidence".

So, we have is this mythological development of no resurrection appearances and as the time goes on as we get further away from the source the stories get more fantastical, preposterous ending in a moral lesson to believe without evidence.

There are major problems with this. 

The Resurrection as a mythological development idea is subverted by the early creed founded 1st Corinthians 15 while First Corinthians was written in the early 50s which predates Mark's Gospel and it contains an early creed that likely goes back to within five years of the death of Jesus

This oral creed says:
  1. that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
  2. that he was buried,
  3. that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 
  4. and that he appeared to Cephas, 
  5. then to the twelve. 
  6. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 
  7. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles.  
  8. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
Belief in the death, burial, resurrection, and reappearance to Peter and the Twelve in verses 3–5, are an early pre-Pauline kerygma or creedal statement. Biblical scholars note the antiquity of the creed, possibly transmitted from the Jerusalem apostolic community. Though, the core formula may have originated in Damascus, with the specific appearances reflecting the Jerusalem community. It may be one of the earliest kerygmas about Jesus' death and resurrection, 

Early kerygma:
  • Neufeld, The Earliest Christian Confessions (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1964) p. 47;
  • Reginald Fuller, The Formation of the Resurrection Narratives (New York: Macmillan, 1971) p. 10 (ISBN 0-281-02475-8);
  • Wolfhart Pannenberg, Jesus – God and Man translated Lewis Wilkins and Duane Pribe (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1968) p. 90 (ISBN 0-664-20818-5);
  • Oscar Cullmann, The Early Church: Studies in Early Christian History and Theology, ed. A. J. B. Higgins (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1966) p. 64;
  • Hans Conzelmann, 1 Corinthians, translated James W. Leitch (Philadelphia: Fortress 1975) p. 251 (ISBN 0-8006-6005-6);
  • Bultmann, Theology of the New Testament vol. 1 pp. 45, 80–82, 293;
  • R. E. Brown, The Virginal Conception and Bodily Resurrection of Jesus (New York: Paulist Press, 1973) pp. 81, 92 (ISBN 0-8091-1768-1)  [From Wiki]
Ancient creed:
  • Wolfhart Pannenberg, Jesus – God and Man translated Lewis Wilkins and Duane Pribe (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1968) p. 90;
  • Oscar Cullmann, The Early church: Studies in Early Christian History and Theology, ed. A. J. B. Higgins (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1966) p. 66;
  • R. E. Brown, The Virginal Conception and Bodily Resurrection of Jesus (New York: Paulist Press, 1973) p. 81;
  • Thomas Sheehan, First Coming: How the Kingdom of God Became Christianity (New York: Random House, 1986) pp. 110, 118;
  • Ulrich Wilckens, Resurrection translated A. M. Stewart (Edinburgh: Saint Andrew, 1977) p. 2 [From Wiki]

The historical facts do not fit well with the idea that the resurrection appearances are the result of mythological development over time as you move further away from the source, so that's the first problem.  They do fit well with the fact that Jesus died, was buried, was risen on the third day, and was seen by multiple people is what Christians believed from the beginning 

More evidence for 1 Cor 15 bening very early

The Oxford Companion to the Bible: “The earliest record of these appearances is to be found in 1 Corinthians 15:3-7, a tradition that Paul ‘received’ after his apostolic call, certainly not later than his visit to Jerusalem in 35 CE, when he saw Cephas (Peter) and James (Gal. 1:18-19), who, like him, were recipients of appearances.” [Eds. Metzer & Coogan (Oxford, 1993), 647.]

Gerd Lüdemann (Atheist NT professor at Göttingen): “…the elements in the tradition are to be dated to the first two years after the crucifixion of Jesus…not later than three years… the formation of the appearance traditions mentioned in I Cor.15.3-8 falls into the time between 30 and 33 CE.” [The Resurrection of Jesus, trans. by Bowden (Fortress, 1994), 171-72.]

Robert Funk (Non-Christian scholar, founder of the Jesus Seminar): “…The conviction that Jesus had risen from the dead had already taken root by the time Paul was converted about 33 C.E. On the assumption that Jesus died about 30 C.E., the time for development was thus two or three years at most.” [Roy W. Hoover, and the Jesus Seminar, The Acts of Jesus, 466.]

James Dunn (Professor at Durham): “Despite uncertainties about the extent of tradition which Paul received (126), there is no reason to doubt that this information was communicated to Paul as part of his introductory catechesis (16.3) (127). He would have needed to be informed of precedents in order to make sense of what had happened to him. When he says, ‘I handed on (paredoka) to you as of first importance (en protois) what I also received (parelabon)’ (15.3), he assuredly does not imply that the tradition became important to him only at some subsequent date. More likely he indicates the importance of the tradition to himself from the start; that was why he made sure to pass it on to the Corinthians when they first believed (15.1-2) (128). This tradition, we can be entirely confident, was formulated as tradition within months of Jesus' death. [Jesus Remembered (Eerdmans, 2003) 854-55.]

Michael Goulder (Atheist NT professor at Birmingham): “[It] goes back at least to what Paul was taught when he was converted, a couple of years after the crucifixion. [“The Baseless Fabric of a Vision,” in Gavin D’Costa, editor, Resurrection Reconsidered (Oneworld, 1996), 48.]

A. J. M. Wedderburn (Non-Christian NT professor at Munich): “One is right to speak of ‘earliest times’ here, … most probably in the first half of the 30s.” [Beyond Resurrection (Hendrickson, 1999), 113-114.]

N.T. Wright (NT scholar [Oxford, 5+ honorary Ph.ds]): “This is the kind of foundation-story with which a community is not at liberty to tamper. It was probably formulated within the first two or three years after Easter itself, since it was already in formulaic form when Paul ‘received’ it.” [The Resurrection of the Son of God (Fortress, 2003), 319.]

Many also speak of how early, in general, the creed must have been. Some feel the creed was “in use by AD 30” ( Walter Kasper, Jesus the Christ, trans. V. Geen (Paulist, 1976), 125.). Virtually no scholar puts it beyond the 40s (Gerald O’Collins, What Are They Saying About the Resurrection (Paulist Press, 1978), 112.].).

Peter May: “Christ’s death is generally thought to have occurred in AD 30 (or 33). Paul wrote his letter to the church at Corinth around AD 55, some 25 years later. He had delivered this creed to them when he visited Corinth in AD 51. Few dates could be more certain, because while he was there he was hauled up before the Roman proconsul Gallio (Acts 18:12-17). Gallio, who subsequently conspired against Nero, was the brother of the philosopher Seneca. Proconsulship was a one year post and a Roman stone inscription found early in the 20th century at nearby Delphi records his period of office as being AD 51-52. This date is so firmly established that it has become one of the lynchpins for working out the dates of the rest of New Testament chronology.” [“The Resurrection of Jesus and the Witness of Paul,” (2008) online at bethinking.org]


The moral lesson? 

Critics say, John's gospel culminates with the story of doubting Thomas to communicate the moral lesson to believe without evidence. However, read the last two verses of John 20:

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

This passage isn't against evidence for faith. In fact, this passage is part of the evidence for Faith. There are those like Thomas who saw the Risen Jesus and believed. But John knows that's not most people, and that's why he includes this account in his Gospel. We don't get to see the evidence (the Risen Jesus) and believe, rather we get to read the evidence (about the Risen Jesus) and believe, but make no mistake, both seeing the evidence and believing and reading the evidence and believing rest on a firm foundation.

So, ironic that people pick the story of doubting Thomas to show that evidence and belief are at odds. Since, John includes the story for one simple reason: to provide evidence for belief, as John puts it. These are written so that you would believe

Objection A - No matter how well they are evidenced, supernatural claims will never be the best explanation for any historical event, unless we get to establish some actual knowledge about the supernatural first. Call that a supernatural bias. 

Reply: First, that's not a supernatural bias, it's an anti-supernatural bias or a pro-naturalism bias. But, as argued previously, Philosophical Naturalism is logically self-refuting, so we have good reasons to reject a physical-only model for the world and no good reasons to accept it. At least none have been presented. 

Objection B - By not rejecting the supernatural will unavoidably lead to special pleading in favor of the religion one is willing to prove.

Reply - Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle, without justifying the exception. It's a double standard.

The key is "without justifying the exception"; but I have justified it in the link above. Not only that, but naturalism is simply presumed.  In what world is one view, which is simply presumed true, favored over one that has a valid argument for it?

Objection C - How do you deal with the time between when the events happened and the stories were written? Or the time between the events and formation of the creeds? A few days is more than enough time for legends to develop. How do you know what was written was accurate to reality?


Objection D - The creed in 1 cor 15 doesn't actually go into any detail regarding what those experiences were, so it can't really be used to say that the resurrection appearances being taught in the first few months are basically what ended up in the gospels.

Reply - What detail is it missing? Death, burial, Resurrection, list of five different appearances are there...

Objection E -We know that a person cannot return from the dead, by somehow overcoming death. That would break the Laws of Nature.

Reply - This assumes that Philosophical Naturalism is true, but we know that it's actually a self-refuting viewpoint

If one is simply assuming that Philosophical Naturalism is true, then it can be cut away with Hitchens's razor - "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"

If one does not claim that Philosophical Naturalism is true, then this objection falls apart.

If one does claim that Philosophical Naturalism is true, then they need to provide the reason/evidence. And need to address the argument in the link above. 

Therefore, we can safely say the following: Philosophical Naturalism is false and an objection based on that can be, and should be, dismissed

Objection F - You can believe in Yahweh specifically and still think that it is extremely unlikely that someone would be raised from the dead. Orthodox Jews do not believe Jesus was raised, and they are hardly naturalists.

Reply - First there are Jews who did believe that Jesus rose from the dead; for example all the disciples were Jewish, secondly there are Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah today And Jesus did fulfill the requirements to confirm Himself as the Messiah. Additionally, Jesus did fulfill the Messianic prophecies 

Objection G - So you have Paul’s 1 Cor 15 version [50s], then you have Mark's Gospel, which has no resurrection [60s], then you have Matthew and Luke gospels that include the resurrection. This is exactly how myths work, you just made a very strong argument for mythicism

Reply: This falls apart when one reads Mark 16:6-7 - And he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you to Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.Mark didn't leave out the Resurrection!

Objection H - The oral creed says that christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. But can that be since Mark’s the earliest gospel.

Reply: It makes sense when you realise that it's speaking of Old Testment; mosy likely Jonah and Isaish 53

Objection I -  The Bible isnt evidence that the Bible is true. Thats circular reasoning and non sequitur.

Reply: The Bible is a collection of 66 "books" of various genres, written by over 40 people, on 3 continents over the course of centuries that the church put into a single binder, i.e. book. So, it's like saying "circular reasoning" becuse one cites an entry in an Encyclopedia to support another entry by a different author in the same Encyclopedia. It's an absurd objection

Objection J - How do you go from "the story was told at X time" to "therefore the story was not a myth"?

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